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heads up; min raise out of the question?

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  1. #1

    Default heads up; min raise out of the question?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 6.5 Tournament, 300/600 Blinds 50 Ante (2 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    BB (t6040)
    Hero (SB) (t7460)

    Hero's M: 7.46

    Preflop: Hero is SB with ,
    Hero bets t1500

    this is about the 6th hand heads up. villain not good, earlier in tourn he d flat called with 45s from bb and made no money with his flush on river. albeit the board was tricky from memory.

    i had made a move twice on him earlier doors pre flop, but took it down there.

    you can see from stacks we re both comfortable. wiz recommended a cpl of shoves that i didnt do (bottom of my range) but i think he s calling quite wide.

    anyway, bringing us to here... one of the sng chaps from grinders uses a min raise when he s heads up. i cant say he does this religiously, but from what i ve seen it seems so. of course it s stack depth dependent, and i guess he s more liable to do it if villain isnt flatting a lot oop.

    in this situation here, even though i bet 2.5bb, i feel it s the least effective. it seems i m strong and while i could fold, its likely im not.
    i feel shoving or min raising to induce bluff more optimal.

    also, whats the worst non-pp that you d just call with here? aj?

    - thanks, ed
  2. #2
    min-raising HU is perfectly fine as long as you're not totally transparent with it (i.e. minraising with KK+ and shoving A9o).

    If you are just shoving/folding every hand HU, they can employ a perfect unexploitable strategy (not that they will). There's nothing wrong with playing pots IP with a hand like ATs. and if you're minraising your good hands it makes your steals less costly.
    Last edited by baudib; 10-18-2010 at 02:42 PM.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  3. #3
    I'd just shove, 15BB effective we could talk. If he's calling wide he isn't folding many worse Ax and you would much rather he fold QJ, KJ, KQ rather than re shoving those.

    I'm not sure I understand the other question but there are lots of hands I'd limp here unless he is jamming over every time.

    Min raising some hands you're folding to a jam along with some big hands seems fine. Like I might limp 87s but min raise/fold 86o.
  4. #4
    I agree with the shove too, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
    you would much rather he fold QJ, KJ, KQ rather than re shoving those.
    Why would we rather he fold these hands rather than reshoving?
  5. #5
    when he shoves them he gets his 40% equity, when he folds them he gets zero. Notch it up to AJ where we have more BW hands dominated (and he's less likely to shove KT/QT) and I think the min raise is better
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ed cooper View Post
    you can see from stacks we re both comfortable.
    Depends a bit on what you call 'comfortable', but I wouldn't agree with that at all. The effective M is 6, so by general consensus, you're in the push/fold mode. Actually I'd say you're in the push mode, because I'd shove ATC here. (Ok, maybe 80%, if he's calling really super wide.)
    As such I would definitely shove ATs, too. This hand is a true powerhouse for the situation and shoving it is so +++EV that there's no way I'd be able to extract the same value by hoping he'd re-shove or, worse, by playing the hand post-flop.
    when he shoves them he gets his 40% equity, when he folds them he gets zero.
    60% of a big pot, if the pot is big enough, is better than 100% of a small pot. If we shove, then it's definitely better for us if he calls with KQ, KJ, QJ, rather than folds them. Why should it be any different when we're calling the shove?
    Last edited by Fielmann; 10-19-2010 at 04:13 AM.
  7. #7
    I have the cEV of getting it in vs those hands at 1200 compared with the EV of winning the blinds of 1000. I feel like an FTR poster in a $5 can find a better spot with a 3/2 chip lead but maybe I'm overestimating the edge?

    it seems like he is making a small mistake by calling an open shove or jamming over our raise since we have AT . But I'm getting confused because this isn't really the whole story since we don't always have AT and we'll be folding some of our range to an open shove so him jamming QJ doesn't seem like it can be a mistake.
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ed cooper View Post

    also, whats the worst non-pp that you d just call with here? aj?
    sorry, i didnt word this well at all. you know sometimes we mix it up and we ll just limp with a strong hand hoping he ll jam over thinking we re weak.

    whats the worst you d employ that tactic with?

    i think thats clearer

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