10 10 bb facing 2 shoves

[ed cooper]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 6.5 Tournament, 200/400 Blinds 25 Ante (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t1065)
SB (t4885)
Hero (BB) (t2485)
UTG (t1405)
MP (t3660)

Hero's M: 3.43

Preflop: Hero is BB with ,
UTG bets t1200, MP raises to t3635 (All-In), 2 folds, Hero ?

utg was playing solidly. the only thing i noted was that he 'punished' a sb limper (from other post), shoving with q9 suited.

mp; earlier called utg raise with 32 off from bb. also called sb shove of ~450 with 67 off from bb (he had ~2k, bb was 50). again, called tiny utg shove with a9 from mp (shove was approx 130 with bb 50).
interestingly these plays were at the beginning of the game, he seemed to play more sensibly henceforth.

[OngBonga]

I posted and deleted because my first post was retarded.

I'll have a go at ranges...
UTG - Any pair, any ace, any broadway, any suited connector 67+, one gappers 68+, maybe some two gappers
MP - KQs A8s+ AT+ 77+

Against MP's range, we have 53% equity. Add more ace rags, broadways and small pairs and this increases. The side pot pretty much equals the main pot, so the 53% of the time we beat MP when he has this range, we get a free shot at UTG with huge equity, but 47% of the time we bust out and MP gets a free shot at UTG with huge equity.

I think I pull faces for my entire time allowance and call with half a second to spare. Interested to see what others say.

[Duffryn]

Not an easy decision. I am not sure what the UTG raise of 1200 out of a 1400 stack means, but it could be an indication of a decent hand. Having said that, it does not really matter, because if you win against Mr MP, you will end up with about the same number of chips.

I would be inclined to call, as you are most probably ahead of UTG and MP is probably loose enough to shove wide enough for this to be profitable.

[OngBonga]

"I am not sure what the UTG raise of 1200 out of a 1400 stack means"

Yeah me neither, but he could just be trying to get cute to induce folds. I treat it like a shove, and this guy is desperate, so it's anything half-playable for me. Our hand crushes UTG range imo. It's MP who we have to worry about. I'm not sure what equity we need against him to make this a call when we consider that there's still a chance we win nothing even by beating MP. I hope someone who knows ICM has something to say.

[KoRnholio]

I really want to call, but ICM might well say it's a fold.

edit- Here's what ICM Nash equillibrim says for UTG and CO (MP) both shoving:

UTG 26.4%, 22+ Ax+ K8s+ KTo+ QTs+ QJo JTs
CO 8.7%, 77+ A9s+ ATo+
BU 2.6%, TT+ AKs
SB 1.8%, JJ+
BB 1.8%, JJ+

I think UTG's range is wider than this, as is CO's. So I'd say a call is correct.

[Duffryn]

If UTG is shoving about 30%, which I think is about right, then MP needs to be shoving wider than 12% for calling to be correct. Oh look - I know ICM.

[PokerWiz]

Based on your reads then a call is indeed correct. You have to include the reads in your decision making. As his range is very wide then calling would be the right move.