over zealous shove by me; 88 from button

[ed cooper]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 6.5 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t3262)
Hero (Button) (t2362)
SB (t1637)
BB (t3269)
UTG (t600)
MP1 (t1480)
MP2 (t890)

Hero's M: 15.75

Preflop: Hero is Button with ,
3 folds, CO bets t200, Hero raises to t2362 (All-In), 1 fold, BB raises to t3269 (All-In), CO calls t3062 (All-In)

what should i have done? co was playing crap, knew he was raising wide. indeed he called this with {results omitted}. bb was capaable of calling wide too {but i won't say what he called with because i won't post results}.

[taipan168]

I think it's a bit overzealous to shove this, particularly when both you and CO have more than starting stacks and the blinds are only 50/100. If they were 100/200 I would like this a lot more. That said I don't hate it, and I wouldn't worry so much about BB waking up with a hand - with that kind of action in front I would expect SB and BB to be calling very tight.

I probably just flat it and (hopefully) take a flop.

[mobaka]

fold or jam is fine ... flatting is terrible no offense but were gonna get squeezed on by the blinds if we flat, a decent amount of the time and were def gonnna get blown off our hand a bunch when we miss or the flop comes 10high+.

[taipan168]

Yeah, on reflection I think you're right, particularly with OP's read that BB calls wide, flatting probably isn't a good idea.

[PokerWiz]

Raise it or fold. Don't flat. That's terrible.

[paratrooper99]

I dont think that flatting here is terrible. Set mining should be profitable and any PP under TT will be fit or fold in most cases in SNG> Raising is no good. If you get reraised, you might have a flip at best and may be pot committed. If you flat and get reraised, you still have plenty of chips to fold and stay in contention for ITM. Definitely dont shove and dont raise either.

[fulksy]

fold or jam is fine ... flatting is terrible no offense but were gonna get squeezed on by the blinds if we flat, a decent amount of the time and were def gonnna get blown off our hand a bunch when we miss or the flop comes 10high+.

at a $6 the blinds aren't going to squeeze here without a hand so i'm not really worried about it, that said i usually fold, but I'm a nit in these spots. i think shoving is pretty bad as your value betting in a spot where not much worse call, except flips which you don't want. flattings not terrible as your set mining against the an opponent who can double you up, with a range that would stack off on lots of flops. i think shoving is the worst option.

[PokerWiz]

Set mining gives you a 12.5 percent to get trips on the flop.

[drmcboy]

you can't say shoving is terrible without giving some numbers, I would be shocked if you can find ranges it's bad against. If shoving is good then folding IS terrible.

I also don't understand where this comes from:

a range that would stack off on lots of flops.

based on what? He opened from the CO and can be very wide.

If you want to flat it's fine, but you need to be planning on winning the pot often without a set. Again, try and find a range where he stacks off on every 8xx flop, which is pretty much what you need.


That said I don't see why getting squeezed is bad either, if you flat and someone jams and the raiser folds and you're worried they are light or have no read call, if they are super tight fold.

[OngBonga]

Set mining gives you a 12.5 percent to get trips on the flop.

Wow, we don't know our set odds here either. Where are you people getting your figures from?

1 - (48/50)*(47/49)*(46/48) = 0.11755102, or 11.76% approx, or 1 in 8.5 approx, or 1:7.5 approx.

Am I working it out wrong?

[TLR]

Wow, we don't know our set odds here either. Where are you people getting your figures from?

1 - (48/50)*(47/49)*(46/48) = 0.11755102, or 11.76% approx, or 1 in 8.5 approx, or 1:7.5 approx.

Am I working it out wrong?

11.76% and 12.5% are close enough for discussion purposes

[TLR]

I think folding is by far the worst option.

Calling is OK, drmcboy was on the money, calling a squeeze is read dependant and there are ways to win the pot without hitting a set, especially in position.

Raising another 250-300 is also a valid move, often the blinds will fold and original raiser will call or fold, if the comes over the top you can fold and still have a decent stack.

[OngBonga]

11.76% and 12.5% are close enough for discussion purposes

Fair enough. In another thread, someone was quoting 10.8%, I was beginning to think my calculations were incorrect.

[fulksy]

i was talking pretty general i guess, of course since your IP you should be able to win a lot of pots without hitting a set. i also didn't mean raising was necessarily bad, i just think shoving is a worse option then 3 betting because almost every worse hand folds, except flips, at least 3 betting might get a small PP to call.

what i meant is that his raising range might be wider but i think its less likely to have mid SC's and weak gappers that a limper might have, more Broadway type hands. so when he hits a lot of times it will be TP type hands, but reflecting on it a bit i guess it doesn't make a ton of sense.

[RadioHead15]

With the blinds being at 50/100 I would not be shoving preflop with this hand even if the other 2 guys had pretty wide ranges and were playing like crap. I would have 3 bet that hand preflop.

[brewer]

Raise or fold here