Double or Nothings discontinued on Stars

[Nakamura]

Double or Nothings will be discontinued from 15 February on PokerStars. They are hoping folks will pick up their new 10-man or 6-man Fifty-50's.

[The Norg]

This actually looks quite fun, certainly more fun than the basic DoN.

Should make for some interesting play on the bubble All of a sudden the big stacks decide to gamble it up, lol.

Are these up and running yet? If so, has anyone tried them? (I don't have an account on Stars, but I've been considering starting a small roll there for a while, so this might just puch me to try it out).

[Nakamura]

Yeah, they've been running a while now. IMO the ICM is kind of tricky, but not nearly as tricky Matrix tourneys.

[Pino_Diablo]

the games run quicker and there is more play on the bubble. DON's were getting sphincter and the average time on a non-turbo increased by ~20% since introduction, so.... PS gets more games per hour with the 50fifty.

i don't know how they come up with these changes.

i haven't played enough to be able to evaluate the ROI changes.

i disliked the DON turbos, especially id one wasn't multitabling a handful at a time.

[kevster]

I believe that the Fifty50s are very +EV at the moment - way more than the DONs.

I say "at the moment" because that's how the DONs started before they became tough. Everyone figured out optimal play (it was idiot proof - even I made money) and it also flooded with regs playing lots of tables.

Currently, there are a lot of people playing the Fifty50s incorrectly so EV is high but I suspect this will fall at least to some degree as time passes.

[Nakamura]

I believe that the Fifty50s are very +EV at the moment - way more than the DONs.

I say "at the moment" because that's how the DONs started before they became tough. Everyone figured out optimal play (it was idiot proof - even I made money) and it also flooded with regs playing lots of tables.

Currently, there are a lot of people playing the Fifty50s incorrectly so EV is high but I suspect this will fall at least to some degree as time passes.

Do you have a guestimate ROI?

My problem with these is that there are always idiots that take -EV gambles early on and double up or bust out. Our EV obviously increases, but it seems hard to come in 1st spot when we aren't prepared to gamble in the same way. Any thoughts?

[kevster]

I'm running 20% ROI 1-2 tabling the $5.24 - too small a sample size though so ask me again in a few weeks. There are regs/multi-tablers about at these stakes but not enough to hugely affect the EV yet.

If people want to go crazy early on then let them and just pick them off if you have a monster. The flip side is that many people (inc. multi-tablers) are just too tight. These aren't to be played like a DON - you need to accumulate chips.

Ultimately, there are enough too loose and too tight players about and that's where the value comes from.