KJo on bubble sb

[ed cooper]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 6.5 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t6385)
Button (t2310)
Hero (SB) (t2445)
BB (t2360)

Hero's M: 6.11

Preflop: Hero is SB with ,
1 fold, Button calls t200, 1 fold, BB checks

couple questions here.firstly what was the best play here? bb was playing solidly, if anything not pushing enough. my challenge was with button.

some notes:

a9 off bb raise 2nd hand 1 limper
34o sb completed
<10bb left limping
flat called ~33% of his stack oop from sb.

he was in far too many pots but i seldom saw what he had.

so i feel im ahead of his range here if i shove but i think he s bad enouhg to call me with a weak ace for example.

can i limp here with 12bb left?

also, i made a mistake regarding wiz in another post; does it calculate shoving with a limper in pot?
if not if someone could post an appropriate link with the relevant icm calculation necessary that d be great. gonna have a look in archives too.

thx, ed

[JsHammer]

I think stack sizes make this too awkward to shove. With 9bbs im shipping it here, but not 12. Your getting a good price to just limp if BB isn't shoving often, and getting value when you hit the flop alot of the time from the BTN fish who will limp wide from the BTN.

[dneureiter]

Shoving with the ante. is the equivalent of 133/266 blinds 4 handed so it's like you only have 9 bbs. Without the ante shove vs someone competent, raise/fold (if they will fold alot) or limp versus someone who is super passive.

Also, yes you can calculate limpers in wiz, just click on action (where it default says fold), change it to call, then give him a limping range and a calling range for your shove.

[Duffryn]

According to Wiz, this is a fold even if the button is limping the top 10-50% of his hands (excluding the top 10%) and only calling your shove with his top 10-20% of hands.

I guess this goes to show how little you want an AI confrontation with these stacks on the bubble and the button does sound like the kind of player who won't back down, once he is in a pot.

[dneureiter]

ugh, i missed the caller. yea limp along

[Nakamura]

WIZ probably also says fold 88 and other such hands as well. I limp or fold this hand, but I wouldn't believe everything WIZ says without tweaking the ranges to something more sensible.

[Duffryn]

WIZ probably also says fold 88 and other such hands as well. I limp or fold this hand, but I wouldn't believe everything WIZ says without tweaking the ranges to something more sensible.

From what I remember, Wiz was saying to shove 55+. I did put in my own ranges which is why I quoted them in the post. In the interests of discussion, perhaps you would like to say what you consider to be sensible ranges and why.

[Nakamura]

I don't have time right now to fiddle with a range, but unless he is a complete limptard, by limping he is giving us some information as to the strength of his hand. It doesn't make much sense for him to playing AA-TT or AK, AQ in this fashion and we need to alter his limping range accordingly. Also his calling range is going to include way for Ax hands than Kx hands as well as PPs and probably some broad-ways too.

I often tend to get lazy and just use the slider in WIZ, but it often suggests an unreasonable range based on the play I see from most opposition.

[Duffryn]

I don't see how the range that you give is any different to the one that I used.

[Nakamura]

I read your post too quickly and misread that you had dropped top 10%. Your range seems fine.