FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: FTP MONIES!!!!!11)

[Trons]

i don't understand why it being "online" makes it illegal as opposed to it being anywhere else.

I don't think anybody has said it's illegal because it's online. Most people hold to the idea that in the law's eyes, in the US, online poker is not illegal.

also, if it being played "online" makes it somehow more harmful than in a casino (where it's legal) i don't understand why online sports betting is legal.

Online could make it more "harmful" then a casino because, theoretically, you'd have easier access to it and you would not be dealing with (in the idea of poker) trained dealers who could potentially spot an addict. Not that I believe a dealer would, just saying. I thought online sports betting was specifically illegal.

so why are these people hell-bent on the idea that online poker is so bad? what's the differentiating factor between playing it live/online, assuming it's not on a rigged site like AP. and what's the differentiating factor between betting on a game which is (beyond a doubt to anyone who has bothered to investigate the mechanics of it) governed by personal skill and betting on something like a horse race/sports game.

Not my personal view, but there are some out there saying that, as previously mentioned, online is bad because of the easy access. If you're a degen gambler, you could, conceivably, sit down before work and donk off a buy-in or two, ect. If you have to go to a casino, that becomes much more difficult.

Being online also means that the sites can be based anywhere in the world, which means they probably do not fall under US jurisdiction when it comes to regulating. And your comparison about sports betting isn't all that accurate because I've known sports bettors who do a lot of research into their games, spreads, ect that it would be considered a skill. The biggest difference is the sports bettor has no direct control over the result, which isn't always true in Poker. In poker, the person playing can control things like bet size, pot size, ect to help determine the outcome of the hand.

i haven't investigated any of this to any real degree at all. so i'm obviously ill-informed and/or naive in my views here. so i'll stop typing and go back to that assignment i was doing 35342 distractions ago.

You should research it more. It's a pretty interesting topic, and it's pretty cool to see how some people attack (term used loosely) poker as gambling, and how people defend it by saying it's predominately a game of skill and therefore not gambling.

[rpm]

Being online also means that the sites can be based anywhere in the world, which means they probably do not fall under US jurisdiction when it comes to regulating. And your comparison about sports betting isn't all that accurate because I've known sports bettors who do a lot of research into their games, spreads, ect that it would be considered a skill. The biggest difference is the sports bettor has no direct control over the result, which isn't always true in Poker. In poker, the person playing can control things like bet size, pot size, ect to help determine the outcome of the hand.
.

i wasn't saying (at least didn't mean to say) there is no edge in sports betting. i was saying it was parallel to poker in that regard because there most definitely IS an edge possible to gained in sports betting. i also originally typed out the point about there being no direct control over the result in sports betting, but deleted it because in that respect it's the exact same as poker (ie we can "get it in good" and still lose, just as a sports bettor can make a +EV bet and then have his team's 5 best players break their legs during warm-up).

if online sports betting is illegal in the states, i obviously have no point. if online sports betting isn't illegal in the states, i still probably have no point.

thanks for your response.

[rpm]

I don't think anybody has said it's illegal because it's online. Most people hold to the idea that in the law's eyes, in the US, online poker is not illegal.
.

well, americans can go to a casino and lose as much of their net worth as they want (if they're losing enough, the casino will probably entice them to stay with free/cheap suites and drinks etc. they certainly do that here in oz) playing games of skill, such as poker or blackjack as well as games of pure chance (and certain long-term loss) such as roulette, 5bazillion different types of slot machine, cash wheels, bingo tickets, etc etc name your game

and americans cannot go online and play poker for money.

thus leading me to believe it's illegal because it's online. as contrasted to being legal when played at a casino.

[Trons]

well, americans can go to a casino and lose as much of their net worth as they want (if they're losing enough, the casino will probably entice them to stay with free/cheap suites and drinks etc. they certainly do that here in oz) playing games of skill, such as poker or blackjack as well as games of pure chance (and certain long-term loss) such as roulette, 5bazillion different types of slot machine, cash wheels, bingo tickets, etc etc name your game

and americans cannot go online and play poker for money.

thus leading me to believe it's illegal because it's online. as contrasted to being legal when played at a casino.

This maybe where the misunderstanding lies. I've not been told that I can't go online to play poker for real money and I've never heard of a federal law that states that. This is one reason why the DoJ can't go after players.

Now, I understand that PS, FT and UB are not allowing US players right now, but I think a lot of that is because they are being indicted and were forced to stop providing the service to us under the indictment. It also stands to reason that they don't want us transferring funds to and from other people on the site while they get this all figured out.

I, for one, am really upset. I've never deposited money onto those sites. I built my bankroll by being staked for $50 and went from there. I've paid my $50 back and the money that is sitting in my accounts are money I won/earned.

Where the poker/sports betting analogy falls apart is that if you use the legal definition of gambling found here: Gambling Law & Legal Definition

A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence,

You'll see that sports betting is a future contingent event not under his control or influence. Any poker hand, unless you're all in preflop, you can influence the hand and/or how much you win by the choices you make, regardless of the hand you have. Sports betting, you can make informed decisions on who to bet on and what spread to take, but, ultimately, it's other people who will decide the outcome of that particular event and therefore it is outside your control, once the initial wager is placed.