hyper turbos

[ed cooper]

anyone been playıng these? came across them last week and have been playıng a few. not sure ıf ıts just theır nature but ıve been running very badly. played quıte a lot last cpl days ($7 6max) and down about 14 buy ıns... (approx breakeven overall but ı played 1 $30 6 max and won that)

bıt concerned now ıf ım employıng correct strategy or not. normally play 9man turbos so perhaps the transıtıon to 6 man (plus hyper) has caught me out.
one starts wıth 25bb, blınds ıncrease every 2 mıns. generally 1 guy wıll be all ın fırst hand. players are callıng wıth weak aces, kq very popular too.

ıs open shovıng (ınıtıally) stıll +ev? or are we foldıng out too much? ıs raıse foldıng ok 1st 1/2 levels? ı mıght be over/underplayıng pocket paırs too, esp from ep.
how much should our openıng range dıffer from 9man?

mın raıse seems to be less effectıve wıth thıs format, players calling a lot oop. can make flop play trıcky at tımes, cant really fıre twıce unless we re good.

how does the format affect ıcm? can sngwız facılıtate these?

stıll thınk theyre profıtable although ıts apparent streakıness and current results dented my confıdence a bıt.

any help apprecıated... wıll post some hands.. good luck

ed

[Rage2100]

I think Nakamura is the man to answer these questions, and I'm sure he will reply to you when he gets back from his weekend break. He's mentioned to me over the last few weeks that 150 buy-in downswings are not uncommon in these things.

I'm sure he can give you some good advice about ranges, etc.

[TLR]

I have played a few of those, will answer what I can
[QUOTE=ed cooper;2058647]anyone been playıng these? came across them last week and have been playıng a few. not sure ıf ıts just theır nature but ıve been running very badly. played quıte a lot last cpl days ($7 6max) and down about 14 buy ıns... (approx breakeven overall but ı played 1 $30 6 max and won that)

bıt concerned now ıf ım employıng correct strategy or not. normally play 9man turbos so perhaps the transıtıon to 6 man (plus hyper) has caught me out.

There are 9 player hypers as well, they may be more in your comfort zone

one starts wıth 25bb, blınds ıncrease every 2 mıns. generally 1 guy wıll be all ın fırst hand. players are callıng wıth weak aces, kq very popular too.

Ante kicks in since level 1, effectively you have less then 25 BB
That being said a lot of people play too loose in level 1-2 IMO, I would not call AI in level with weak aces or KQ. I think a decent AI calling range is AT+, 88 or 99+

ıs open shovıng (ınıtıally) stıll +ev? or are we foldıng out too much? ıs raıse foldıng ok 1st 1/2 levels? ı mıght be over/underplayıng pocket paırs too, esp from ep.
how much should our openıng range dıffer from 9man?

In level 1-2 I dont think open shoving is correct if effective stacks are in 15-20 BB range.
Raise folding is possible in level 1, sometimes in level 2 as well, I dont do it often but it happened, especially if you have a push and a call behind
You should open much wider then 9 man

mın raıse seems to be less effectıve wıth thıs format, players calling a lot oop. can make flop play trıcky at tımes, cant really fıre twıce unless we re good.

Since level 3 it is often push-fold anyway, and I would not open for less then 2.5 BB

[taipan168]

I would just say that hyper turbos are no different from normal SNGs, just that they get to the push/fold stages faster. The hand-by-hand decisions that you make are the same as a normal SNG with the same stack/blind ratio.

[TLR]

I would just say that hyper turbos are no different from normal SNGs, just that they get to the push/fold stages faster. The hand-by-hand decisions that you make are the same as a normal SNG with the same stack/blind ratio.

I dont neccessarily agree with this statement, there are a few differences that I think are important
1. Antes kick in much eariler (level 1)
2. 2 min blinds means you get to see much less hands per level then you see in normal Sngs, which means that you need to open up your game a bit more
3. This type of tournament attracts crowd which is more loose/aggro, so you need to adjust

[baudib]

I used to play super turbos on FTP that start you out with 10 BBS. I suppose these would play very similarly after the first couple of levels, except that with antes you'd have to open up slightly more.

There are push-fold charts that people have made based on position and stack sizes for those, I'm sure they would be helpful.

[Nakamura]

I played the $7 9-man hyper turbos for quite a while. In the opening stages you can nut-hunt in limped pots, raise-fold while trying to steal the blinds. I know some winnings players that play 27 231 tables at once that push/fold everything, even if they have 25bb. The strategy seemed significantly dumbed down in that one player seemed to push any PP for 25bb from UTG. This is obviously not profitable.

Run some figures through a Nash calculator and get some approximate shoving ranges/calling ranges. I did this for hyper-turbos starting with 10bb's and the results are quite surprising. People call way too much during level 1 for you to shove the equilibrium, especially from early positions. From later positions, people tend to not shove wide enough. As the blinds get bigger, people also tend to fold too frequently.

Hyper-turbos have huge variance. I recently ran very nicely (a lovely straight graph line) over 10 000 games and have recently hit a 150 BI down-swing, implying 10k of games is too small a sample size to accurately measure ROI. You have to be mentally prepared for huge swings - I've lost over $1k in a day a couple of times now playing mostly $20 games and I still beat the games for a decent ROI. You will definitely need confidence in your game or you should stay away from these games.

Do not tend to min-raise in 9-man games. Opponents are unpredictable and you will likely get several callers. I'm more inclined to min-raise from a LP and in 6-max games, since I'll get fewer callers. I'll also min-raise in 10bb games. Read up on Game Theory but you should do this with monsters and hands like A5o that are not good enough to shove. I know at least one reg in the SharkScope leaderboards for $20 games that only min-raises with AA or KK. I watch most times he min-raises and it's always AA or KK. Against him I'll fold QQ and below. I should fold KK too, but it makes me sick.

Obviously following this strategy is super-exploitable by regs like me, so this is why I throw in min-raises with hands that are too weak to shove. Regs will note you sometimes min-raise fold, so they won't know if you have AA or A5o. That makes regs rather nervous to jam and you'll get folds most times. I do get jammed on sometimes and have to fold, but about 50% of the time, I have a hand I want to get it in with!

[99PROBLEMSSS]

badudid where are your charts I have been trying to find some good charts for these 10bb on lock and merge 6 max hypers?

[Credsfan03]

I think that you should start shoving with pocket pairs very early in these tournaments.

[Weissr]

Never a big fan of Hypers, basically turns into one big shove fest. I feel like there's more luck than skill involved. Anyone have consistent wins in these things....ever?

[donkbee]

Never a big fan of Hypers, basically turns into one big shove fest. I feel like there's more luck than skill involved. Anyone have consistent wins in these things....ever?

Yes there are people that win consistently.

[simpledude16]

Never a big fan of Hypers, basically turns into one big shove fest. I feel like there's more luck than skill involved. Anyone have consistent wins in these things....ever?

in certain formats of hypers no one consistently wins pre rakeback but post rb can make lots of profit, game select and learn the structure well to whatever you want to play and you can win consistently at it

[Weissr]

in certain formats of hypers no one consistently wins pre rakeback but post rb can make lots of profit, game select and learn the structure well to whatever you want to play and you can win consistently at it

doesn't seem like you'd be winning much if you were losing pre rakeback and winning post rakeback. Wouldn't that equate to 30% (rb) of the 10% you pay in rake... So in a $10sng hyper you're now getting an extra 30 cents profit ($1fee x 30%) doesn't seem like that would be enough to turn you into a winner, or if it was, the amount won would be minimal.... maybe I'm missing something..?

[donkbee]

Most players winning significant amounts play a large volume and a much bigger average buy-in than $10.

[Pascal]

doesn't seem like you'd be winning much if you were losing pre rakeback and winning post rakeback. Wouldn't that equate to 30% (rb) of the 10% you pay in rake... So in a $10sng hyper you're now getting an extra 30 cents profit ($1fee x 30%) doesn't seem like that would be enough to turn you into a winner, or if it was, the amount won would be minimal.... maybe I'm missing something..?

Think more along the lines of $100 hypers with SNE and playing massive volume. Especially when WCOOP satellite SNGs run

[Weissr]

Think more along the lines of $100 hypers with SNE and playing massive volume. Especially when WCOOP satellite SNGs run

Sounds like one hell of a grind..