How Isn't There Aces Here?

[agnesamurphy]

Lock Poker $100 GTD Deepstack Turbo - $1 + $0.1 -- 0/75/150 Blinds - 9 Players

It's a new table for me, maybe 15 hands or so in. Haven't played with these players before so I don't have anything on them.

UTG+1 - 9,367
MP1 (Hero) - 6,100
MP2 - 4,209
HJ - 5,000
CO - 5,000
BTN - 2,936
SB - 6,171
BB - 4,617
UTG - 9,317

Dealt to Hero K, K

one fold, UTG+1 raises to 525, Hero raises to 1,800, four folds, SB is all in 6,096, one fold, UTG+1 is all in 8,842, Hero folds

Against one Villain it's an easy call, but against two? Is it too conservative to suspect that someone has aces?

[Pascal]

3bet smaller, 1400 or so, and easy call even against 2

[agnesamurphy]

3bet smaller, 1400 or so, and easy call even against 2

3-bet smaller? How do you determine 3-bet sizing? I've been told in my previous threads that I need to 3-bet bigger.

[Pascal]

Where have you been told to 3bet bigger? This is probably just a different spot - you aren't that deep and the initial open raise is big

[agnesamurphy]

It was a different spot, and it was with 77 instead of KK. Here's the exact thread: http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...sb-192613.html

How do you determine 3-bet sizing then? Should I have bet smaller here to commit less of my chips, or so that it induces 4-bet shoves from weaker hands?

[Luco]

Never fold KK pre. Ever.

Rarely, if ever, fold AK/QQ pre too. You spend ages waiting for these hands, play them like they're AA and don't regret it.

Re: 3bet sizing. Pascal - this is no foldem holdem!

You won't be 3bet bluffing much until you start moving up stakes, so just value 3bet as much as you think they will call. In this hand it's a big opening raise so he's probably not folding, you could even 3bet shove here if you wanted. 3betting smaller to induce has value, but you get flatted a ton so just pump the pot imo.

'They must have Aces' - I'd be FAR more worried about a small ball raise than an overshove. Think about it.

[fjuanl]

In the 7s hand your stack was so small that you were better off shoving. Plus you don't exactly want to see a flop with 77 with so much of your stack in play.

KK hand --

Effectively you are calling your remaining 4300 to win 12350, which means you have to be 34.8% to break even.

You are 32% vs these assumptions:

UTG+1: KK+, AK
SB: QQ+, AK

This is about the worst case scenario. Add 1 hand for either of them and you can call

[baudib]

Snap call.

[FlowJoe]

Tournament preflop, snap call, hope no one has aces and flop hits you!! Chip up or move on to next tourney. Especially at this buyin level!!

[luckyhearts]

I would only fold KK on a big bubble with a nice stack. Push and pray!

[Pascal]

I would only fold KK on a big bubble with a nice stack. Push and pray!

Why would you do that?

[Luco]

Why would you do that?

mincash >>> win ldo

[CrAzY]

Why would you do that?

In a big tournament..with a nice stack against a 1/2 opponent stack u can fold KK if it s a tight player . But for me to fold KK preflop it s so hard against 1-2 opponents at this type of tournaments. KK top hand.

[Pascal]

No, you can't.

[Fielmann]

Depends on the situation. There obviously are spots where folding KK is ok, and yes, they mostly happen at bubbles.

As for stacks - when your opponent's stack is 2x smaller than yours then you are actually less likely to fold than if it was bigger than yours.

[jyms]

Fuck the bubbles and what most of you guyts think about folding. You don't play tourneys to cash. When you start playing to win you may cash less but your ROI will go up considerably.

[Fielmann]

ROIs go up from making the most +EV decisions. The most +EV decision in each particular spot is determined by analysing the input data mathematically, not by repeating emotional slogans.

[Pascal]

Please, give me some examples of where you can fold Kings at bubbles of normal (not satellite) tournaments? Stalling to cash = good, etc, folding super profitable spots to bag a mincash when you've got a great chance to double up = bad

[CrAzY]

Sometimes in a big tournament (like Sunday Million at PS) being a short stack in a bubble moment with KK against a big stack u loose ) because this is online poker. So Pascal if i want money i fold my pair of kings . an example when u don t have enough bankroll.

[Luco]

Sometimes in a big tournament (like Sunday Million at PS) being a short stack in a bubble moment with KK against a big stack u loose ) because this is online poker. So Pascal if i want money i fold my pair of kings . an example when u don t have enough bankroll.

I'm sure Pascal will be along shortly and he will have plenty to say about your post so I'll leave most of this to him and just say:

Loose: the opposite of tight
Lose: the opposite of win

ROIs go up from making the most +EV decisions. The most +EV decision in each particular spot is determined by analysing the input data mathematically, not by repeating emotional slogans.

Nearly always true but there will occasionally be qualitative variables that influence our decision making beyond cEV/tEV/icm (I'm not going to say the M word )

[Pascal]

Sometimes in a big tournament (like Sunday Million at PS) being a short stack in a bubble moment with KK against a big stack u loose ) because this is online poker. So Pascal if i want money i fold my pair of kings . an example when u don t have enough bankroll.

Wow, where to start. OK, if you think online poker is rigged then quit and don't come back. Unless you're making a joke, when ha ha ha...

Don't play tournaments which are outside your bankroll if you want to be profitable? Making folds like that will destroy any small edge you have and mean you're losing money just by entering. You're literally setting fire to money.

I can see a reason if you're in a massive tournament you satellited into for free which would dramatically change your bankroll/life, but the Sunday Million bubble is hardly that

[drmcboy]

it's problem isn't kings they accidentally