Polygamist Werewolf

[OngBonga]

That said, I really like this game.

I probably wouldn't as a wolf though.

[BankItDrew]

Gabe was in trouble from his very first post. Idk what about it was bad, but obv it was. From there on, I think he played pretty well. Being able to survive as long as he did with literally everybody going after him took a lot of skill.

MVP goes to Rilla, who started the cross-claiming thing. That really threw the wolves for a loop, and it was hard to not lynch gabe after lynching wuf. TBH, Rilla/rascal could have done a much better job of clearing themselves, but you could also just congratulate the wolves on being able to cast a ton of shade on it.

Also, theres this first post



HItting everyone BUT gabe

Yeah IDK why gabe got so much heat for that first post. That was sick.

Wolf mvp would have been gabe if we won. It was impressive how well he played, despite all of the evidence against him.

[BooG690]

Question:

Boog wants to know who my top 4 wolves are.

What is my best answer here? I fear that if too many people have gabe/keith in their list - we're screwed. But I can't think of a viable other 4

Throwing pressure on BID.

[BankItDrew]

You win after one mislynch.

dude lol ya that's why it's funny

you think i'm much dumber than I am. That or you're autistic.

[BankItDrew]

Throwing pressure on BID.

I had no real good answer and neither did my baddies

[BankItDrew]

I felt like we lost before the end of Day 1. I said as much in the den.

[BooG690]

you think i'm much dumber than I am. That or you're autistic.

This. All love though. <3

[JKDS]

Some points on the format

The site I played this on has very long days. We're talking 3 weeks. Its a key aspect of the game, since otherwise it'd be over really quickly. I tried to keep with the long day spirit by having longer days than we're used to here. But, I didnt want to force it. So I compromised and had a mandatory 72 hour day, and a 48 hr extension.

Rilla asked me to get rid of that extension on day 2. I thought that'd be too pro village, and went against the spirit of the game. I also didnt want to go back on what I said at the start of the day, which some players could have been relying on.

------

Neat thing: Sometimes when this format is played, failing to reach majority = no lynch, and the wolves get a night kill. I figured that would severely handicap our village and would make this way too wolf favored. I also didnt want "stalling out" to be a winning strategy (especially if we had an inactive, which we usually do).

------

Wuf was correct that a random lynch is +EV for the village. Its something like a 60% winrate. But I was 99% certain that noone would ever fucking do that, and picked this format anyway.

I also had a lot of faith in the wolves after they got wuf lynched. Day1 is brutal for them, since its just a 4/12= 1/3 shot for the village to lynch one of them. But, day 2 their equity skyrockets since literally EVERY villager needs to be on the wolf wagon to reach majority. They almost got boog, but meh.

The inactivity likely hurt both sides here. It wasnt from many players, but being absent made it harder for either side to reach majority.

[BooG690]

The den was a fun, fun read.

[JKDS]

One more village pair, and a nightkill, that would be good. That gives wolves the chance to pick off the most dangerous threat.

I like this a lot.

[JKDS]

Thoughts on format?

[BooG690]

Thoughts on format?

This was the most fun I had in WW in a while. The pair format forced villagers to logically put together wolf teams rather than go after individual wolves. Thanks JKDS.

[JKDS]

ong, pleasure being WW partners with you as always

I got a chuckle when you got randomed to Ong again. I was like, "really?". Que sera

[BankItDrew]

Thoughts on format?

This was one of my more enjoyable games. I look forward to the next one!

The format was cool in that it was different but basic. Probably the most basic game we've played but it was still great. If the wolves were lynched D1, I may not feel the same way though.

The AFK stuff was terribly frustrating, frustrating on all afk players. I don't think there was a disadvantage on one side or the other though because the afk players seemed to be split on both teams.

[OngBonga]

I am also satisfied with certain intuitions I've had this game, particularly feeling strongly that bid was wolf (but I didn't until the end -- you did really well!)

GG everyone, this one was fun!

ong, pleasure being WW partners with you as always

Sorry I missed this in crosspost. You're welcome, I was most happy to be village pair with you. I felt like we were working well together. I'm glad I managed to talk you into nailing gabe. I was with you on boog, but boog is just naturally wolfy, while I was certain about gabe.

[aubreymcfate]

Yeah, afk is really bad with this, it's unfortunate that I didn't have the time to be present near the middle of the game, I lose my footing more easily when I have to catch up on a lot at once. I have also noticed that there are certain modes of thinking about things that are required for this game, the sorts of things that come more naturally to poker players, quantifying data and such, and there is only so far intuition can take you. and i don't want to keep asking questions in-game lol. i'll figure it out.

[gabe]

hey good game you fucking villagers!!!! so sick that we couldve won if the wolves were online at that point. i thought my go at BID was pretty believable and if it wasnt for ong posting so damn much i think the votes might have slid over to boog



boog you owned my face off the first post of the thread. the crossclaim got us too. nice one rilla. my wolf brain did not think of that. outing day 1 is obv the smartest play for the village (despite what you guys think i was doing)

and ong, gj for pointing out all the village logic i missed. i spent a lot of time trying to be loose in the thread but missed a bunch of things villageGabe would probably notice. its annoying because it makes me want to conclude "dont post as a wolf" is the best strategy. oh well i shot for the moon


love,
gabe

[OngBonga]

Thoughts on format?

I think this is really tough for the wolves against a strong village. If it's 60/40 in a vacuum, it's probably 70/30 here. That said, a strong wolf team can pull this off, and wolves were actually in a winning position at one point I think, had they all been together, despite being up against it.

It's nice and simple, and forces the wolves to work together. It's good.

[OngBonga]

and ong, gj for pointing out all the village logic i missed

Yeah I was never letting you go today. Every possible team had to revolve around you, and my job today was simply to do my best to make sure it was you that got lynched, in case I was wrong about boog/hoopy, which of course I was.

[gabe]

part of me still wants to argue with ong about how villagery i am

[gabe]

jkds, thanks for modding. it was very fun.

rilla please enjoy reading the den thread its open

[OngBonga]

part of me still wants to argue with ong about how villagery i am

I'm really glad you're a wolf, not for bragging rights, but for your own reputation as a villager.

[BooG690]

part of me still wants to argue with ong about how villagery i am

Ditto. Apparently, Wuf was sure I was a wolf, too. As did everyone else. Maybe I'm not as villgery as I think I am?

[gabe]

wuf says "i mean, the reason i bolded gabe like a week ago was because his freudian slip claim on rascal was something he would never believe as a villager"

this is like the only way i find wolves as a villager. when i get inside their heard and consider how it led to their words getting posted



its kind of a relief not being a wolf anymore. lots of pressure

[OngBonga]

Ditto. Apparently, Wuf was sure I was a wolf, too. As did everyone else. Maybe I'm not as villgery as I think I am?

I could definitely see why you were getting heat. I mean rilla had you ahead of gabe, so did aubrey. You looked a lot better today, I thought. You were acting like a villager who was worried about losing. gabe was acting like a wolf trying to find a win. But you could definitely have gotten lynched today. Having hoopy as your buddy, who is also someone who comes across as naturally wolfy, doesn't help at all.

I think the boog/hoopy villager pair is a handicap to the village through no fault of your own.

[gabe]

part of me still wants to argue with ong about how villagery i am

Ditto. Apparently, Wuf was sure I was a wolf, too. As did everyone else. Maybe I'm not as villgery as I think I am?

i know i had perfect info, but imo if i was a villager i would have thought you were a villager from the beginning. your first post attack is such a different mindset than you showed last game as a wolf. i didnt want to keep emphasizing this read though because you had some heat for other people. also if i defended you i was scared you would get paranoid about me pocketing you and then youd put me on blast

[BooG690]

I think the boog/hoopy villager pair is a handicap to the village through no fault of your own.

Heh, when Hoopy wrote the wolfiest post in the thread, I thought that was game over. So wolfy.

[OngBonga]

wuf says "i mean, the reason i bolded gabe like a week ago was because his freudian slip claim on rascal was something he would never believe as a villager"

this is like the only way i find wolves as a villager. when i get inside their heard and consider how it led to their words getting posted



its kind of a relief not being a wolf anymore. lots of pressure

Villagers make tons of slips that can be presented as wolfy, but that really wasn't one of them.

[JKDS]

I think this is really tough for the wolves against a strong village. If it's 60/40 in a vacuum, it's probably 70/30 here. That said, a strong wolf team can pull this off, and wolves were actually in a winning position at one point I think, had they all been together, despite being up against it.

It's nice and simple, and forces the wolves to work together. It's good.

I was hoping it'd be wolf favored honestly, on MS, the wolf winrate is 66% over 12 games. You may be right tho

[gabe]

ong zzzzzzz i feel like youre baiting me into arguing like always. i bet you'd love for me to point out all of your wrong posts, like #1200

[OngBonga]

ong zzzzzzz i feel like youre baiting me into arguing like always. i bet you'd love for me to point out all of your wrong posts, like #1200

I lost count of how many times I read back my posts and thought "that could look bad"

[OngBonga]

I was hoping it'd be wolf favored honestly, on MS, the wolf winrate is 66% over 12 games. You may be right tho

I guess this is the closest wolves have come to winning in some time, considering they were within reach.

[OngBonga]

Notice that gabe hasn't directly acknowledged any of the points I've made where I suggest he's not playing like he does as a villager. That's because he knows I'm right and has no credible argument. Better to just ignore me and respond to other points.

gabe villager would at least acknowledge the points I'm making make him look bad, and try to argue why he's not his usual sharp self.

I mean this is gabe who sniffed out the epic triple fakeclaim.

And he'd have us believe that he needs me to remind him that boog/hoopy are confirmed wolves from his pov.

Well baited gabe.

So how is this wrong? I was bang on here.

[OngBonga]

I was so convinced gabe was a wolf, that I knew JKDS was trolling with the flip.

[Luco]

Im for reelz sitting out the next one, I was burned out even before I subbed here tbh

[Luco]

And I still havent read the den thread

[a500lbgorilla]

Hahaha gg guys

I still think Boog is a wolf.

Dunno how I can take MVP, I couldn't have done half the shit I did without Ong playing point. Plus I was a big liability day 2 as I was actively trying to coax Ong over to Boog where I was much more comfortable. If he doesn't refuse to let go, I might pull him over to the wrong side.

[a500lbgorilla]

Thoughts on format?

I said it earlier in the game, I thought this was one hell of a game. I'm still trying to figure out what happened.

[a500lbgorilla]

Some points on the format

The site I played this on has very long days. We're talking 3 weeks. Its a key aspect of the game, since otherwise it'd be over really quickly. I tried to keep with the long day spirit by having longer days than we're used to here. But, I didnt want to force it. So I compromised and had a mandatory 72 hour day, and a 48 hr extension.

Rilla asked me to get rid of that extension on day 2. I thought that'd be too pro village, and went against the spirit of the game. I also didnt want to go back on what I said at the start of the day, which some players could have been relying on.

------

Neat thing: Sometimes when this format is played, failing to reach majority = no lynch, and the wolves get a night kill. I figured that would severely handicap our village and would make this way too wolf favored. I also didnt want "stalling out" to be a winning strategy (especially if we had an inactive, which we usually do).

------

Wuf was correct that a random lynch is +EV for the village. Its something like a 60% winrate. But I was 99% certain that noone would ever fucking do that, and picked this format anyway.

I also had a lot of faith in the wolves after they got wuf lynched. Day1 is brutal for them, since its just a 4/12= 1/3 shot for the village to lynch one of them. But, day 2 their equity skyrockets since literally EVERY villager needs to be on the wolf wagon to reach majority. They almost got boog, but meh.

The inactivity likely hurt both sides here. It wasnt from many players, but being absent made it harder for either side to reach majority.

I was of the opinion that it was pro-wolf to shorten the days and I remember past games that the closer you get to the deadline in these no-specials games, the more paranoid everyone becomes. I didn't want the wolves to have to churn through 3 or 4 realignments before we got to that point.

[SuperMonkeyFace]

Shitttt. Sorry wolf bros. This was a really bad time for me and I think any other format I would've managed better. I peeked in a few times today from work n almost slapped a vote on boog but all I could think was how bad it would look of me since I was overly afk. (Should've anyways cuz like, why the eff not)

[Luco]

Rescind gabe?

Btw I chuckled at this question mark, it was perfect

[a500lbgorilla]

jkds, thanks for modding. it was very fun.

rilla please enjoy reading the den thread its open

I kinda wish I wolfed with you guys this game. You guys played really well. With Luco sliding in late, that added a great wrinkle to your team.

RNG shoulda swapped me in for SMF, the slanker!

[aubreymcfate]

Shitttt. Sorry wolf bros. This was a really bad time for me and I think any other format I would've managed better. I peeked in a few times today from work n almost slapped a vote on boog but all I could think was how bad it would look of me since I was overly afk. (Should've anyways cuz like, why the eff not)

did you really forget about the game? I was inclined to believe you bc i felt your pain of ww + busy schedule, now i just need to know...

[Luco]

I kinda wish I wolfed with you guys this game. You guys played really well. With Luco sliding in late, that added a great wrinkle to your team.

RNG shoulda swapped me in for SMF, the slanker!

I would love to wolf with you. After your last wolf game I know youve got wolf greatness in you, im never as confident on my reads as I make out btw and you had me guessing for a while iirc

[GatorJH]

This was the most fun I had in WW in a while. The pair format forced villagers to logically put together wolf teams rather than go after individual wolves. Thanks JKDS.

This. Thanks JKDS

[Luco]

I think what rilla needs is a wolf game where he avoids early heat for long enough to find his stride, if that makes sense

[Luco]

thanks jkds, you were the best kind of mod - almost forgotten

[Luco]

I think if I could have just put a little more doubt into ong's head this game we would have had it

[BankItDrew]

thanks jkds, you were the best kind of mod - almost forgotten

A forgotten virtue in recent FTR WW games...

[MadMojoMonkey]

This was an excellent game. I was too busy to play, or even sub. Which is good, because I was going to have had an uphill climb to clear hoopy/boog at the time the sub was proposed. By the end of the game it was clear that it couldn't be boog/hoopy with gabe, though... so maybe I don't blow it all.

I don't know if I'll ever be comfortable reading ong as V. I mean, I was pretty sure, but kept getting all paranoid. Plus, I kept thinking that if aubrey flipped wolf again, this is the kind of adjustment she'd be making to her play. More involved, but still on the fringes.

Keep asking question, aubrey! It's one of your strengths in WW.

BID played a great wolf game.

The self back-n-forth wufrage in the dead thread is hilarious.


Kinda sad that "villager knees" didn't continue in this game.

[BankItDrew]

The self back-n-forth wufrage in the dead thread is hilarious.

hahaha yup

I missed your graphs, MMM

[JKDS]

thanks jkds, you were the best kind of mod - almost forgotten

A forgotten virtue in recent FTR WW games...

My modding philosophy is
1) Make the game fun/different
2) Be as invisible as possible.

I think its for the best.

@All: Glad you liked the game!

[wufwugy]

glad you like the wufrage

thanks for modding jkds

[wufwugy]

Some thoughts (color-coded!):

Cross-claim: as fun as it was, I think it turned the most likely villagers into wolf targets. None of the four of us were anywhere near getting lynched in the minds of any villagers until after the claim and the idea that the scenario could happen to wolves. I think we perfect-game this if not for the cross-claim. FPS only works when nobody sees it as FPS, which is why using FPS doesn't work and also why accusations of FPS are rarely correct.

Boog and Hoopy: I apologize for my shitty play regarding you guys. A few games back I realized that in theory it should always be wrong to attack players who are not your immediate lynch targets, and this game is evidence supporting that. You guys had coincidentally played within a wolfy realm, so I assumed you had to be the second pair to Gabe and Keith. Blowing you off probably made me look wolfy to you, which probably made it easier to view Ong's theory as veracious.

My lynch: LOL cmon guys that was some "wuf's dumbass soulreads from 4 years ago" level of tinfoil.

BID: in the dead thread when I said somebody is playing so cleverly that he might not know he's being clever, I was talking about you. Apparently there's a generic villager tell that applies to everybody on FTR yet doesn't apply to you. When you do the tell, it's either null or shows you're a wolf. My assumption that the tell applies to you is part of why the last two times you were wolf I gave you some village cred.

Gabe: you're my MVP!

[BooG690]

The cross-claim sucked.

[OngBonga]

The cross claim would've been better if someone potentially linked to any of those four tore wuf and rascal's posts apart instead of me. It was unfortunate that the already most villager knees (there you go mojo) person out there was the one to demonstrate a very difficult to fake reaction.

[OngBonga]

It was like a grenade, and grenades are always a good thing.

Show me when a grenade was ever a bad thing.

[wufwugy]

The cross claim would've been better if someone potentially linked to any of those four tore wuf and rascal's posts apart instead of me. It was unfortunate that the already most villager knees (there you go mojo) person out there was the one to demonstrate a very difficult to fake reaction.

ong i dont understand what you mean

[OngBonga]

ong i dont understand what you mean

It was a reaction test, right? What use is a reaction test if the only person to give a true villager reaction to it is the one already least likely to get lynched?

But how can rilla know that would happen. He just lobs the grenade, he doesn't control the explosion.

[wufwugy]

my read is that rilla was trying to confuse the wolves and get some meaningful reactions from them.

the main value i see to it is to show that the faker and the target (and their partners) are villagers. this comes by the target's reaction (a wolf would botch it by not playing along most likely and villager would do what i did), as well as by knowing that a wolf is super unlikely to choose the wrong target since it will so often backfire and get the wolves killed.

the irony is that even if villagers had realized this and given vil cred based on it, what happened is the paranoid view that the wolves were forced into it accidentally. obviously i think this basically never happens, and i explain why boog and hoopy gave it credence by how badly i attacked them.

[wufwugy]

interesting to note, the dynamic did reveal bid to be a wolf. his d1 behavior was consistent with how he sometimes played villager 2 years ago, but when d2 came around and he ignored his d1 opinion, it showed that he was wolf.

[MadMojoMonkey]

It was unfortunate that the already most villager knees (there you go mojo) person out there was the one to demonstrate a very difficult to fake reaction.

I would have fought the wuf lynch if I was in-game. Wuf was clearly not FOS by EOD1. His story fully checked out, thanks to ong making him explain every detail of it. It all fit the history in the thread. I was left wondering if it was possible that rilla/rascal would do this. I came to the conclusion that it was plausible, but not likely, since rillawolf probably capable, but definitely not confirmed to play like that.

You gotta admit that rilla's choice of wuf was genius, though. Wuf is among the most likely to see it as what it actually was.

***
boozh confirmed always wolfy.

[BooG690]

boozh confirmed always wolfy.

Heh, is that me?

BID did a really good job at casting doubt in D1. I fell for it because I was thinking pretty vanillaish.

[wufwugy]

boozh is the new booj

[BankItDrew]

interesting to note, the dynamic did reveal bid to be a wolf. his d1 behavior was consistent with how he sometimes played villager 2 years ago, but when d2 came around and he ignored his d1 opinion, it showed that he was wolf.

Noted

[BankItDrew]

Heh, is that me?

BID did a really good job at casting doubt in D1. I fell for it because I was thinking pretty vanillaish.

If you're not playing in the next game, I'm not sure if I'll attack anyone on D1. I just don't think I have it in me lol

It's that fucking avatar, I'm telling ya

[BankItDrew]

Hey beeuguh, remember when you were my avatar?

good times

[wufwugy]

Noted

id be highly impressed if you figured out a way to turn this into a strength or simply just not a weakness.

i dont mean it's a weakness for you specifically, i think it's a structural wolf weakness. wolves kinda have no choice but to go back for no rational reason on things they claimed earlier. the main endgame power the village has imo is looking for these inconsistencies.

if i was you in that situation, i dunno what i do. maybe i do a variation of what i said my wolf plan was for this game in the beginning. which would be for you and gabe to come out immediately on d2 bolding each other, both saying things that were exactly true about why your behavior was wolfy. you saying how gabe has to be a wolf because gator/wuf wasnt and gabe saying you have to be a wolf because of how badly you wanted gator/wuf to die. this could then have set the stage for the village to take a second look and think that something really screwy was going on since no way both the wolves come out immediately and try to kill each other hard, right? this type of thing could possibly have gotten a second look at ong for poe reasons.

im not saying this would have worked, but it is the only type of way i can see avoiding the inevitable amnesia you had to have over your d1 opinion.

[BooG690]

Hey beeuguh, remember when you were my avatar?

good times

Heh, wolfy character that old avatar of yours.

[wufwugy]

id be highly impressed if you figured out a way to turn this into a strength or simply just not a weakness.

i dont mean it's a weakness for you specifically, i think it's a structural wolf weakness. wolves kinda have no choice but to go back for no rational reason on things they claimed earlier. the main endgame power the village has imo is looking for these inconsistencies.

if i was you in that situation, i dunno what i do. maybe i do a variation of what i said my wolf plan was for this game in the beginning. which would be for you and gabe to come out immediately on d2 bolding each other, both saying things that were exactly true about why your behavior was wolfy. you saying how gabe has to be a wolf because gator/wuf wasnt and gabe saying you have to be a wolf because of how badly you wanted gator/wuf to die. this could then have set the stage for the village to take a second look and think that something really screwy was going on since no way both the wolves come out immediately and try to kill each other hard, right? this type of thing could possibly have gotten a second look at ong for poe reasons.

im not saying this would have worked, but it is the only type of way i can see avoiding the inevitable amnesia you had to have over your d1 opinion.

fwiw i think this would have worked <10% of the time. you guys were in an extremely tough situation.

[SuperMonkeyFace]

did you really forget about the game? I was inclined to believe you bc i felt your pain of ww + busy schedule, now i just need to know...

Well sort of. I've literally spent every day doing this course and its kept me busy but I didn't exactly forget about the game.. :P

[lilrascal]

GG guys. I'm sorry about not being around much the last couple of days, but IRL got in the way.

Props to Rilla, Wuf and Gator for going with the villa counterclaim gambit. That made the game very interesting.

MVP goes to Ong IMO for really strong villa play here in looking at all the possibilities.

Thanks for modding JKDS, this was a fun and interesting game.

[BooG690]

Rascal being away helped convince me he was a wolf. He's usually more active. Weird when IRL things become a wolf/village tell.

[lilrascal]

Rascal being away helped convince me he was a wolf. He's usually more active. Weird when IRL things become a wolf/village tell.

FYI, my posting amount is not role indicative. My only wolf game here on FTR, I was still one of the top posters.

What made me think you were wolfy was not seeing how at EOD, the game was locked with a gabe lynch. I'm just glad it worked out in the end.

[BooG690]

Hoopy and I were the only ones 100% sure gabe was a wolf.