*** Official Politics Shitposting Thread ***

[CoccoBill]

It's different with Marxism. Under that, you're not free to do fucking anything. You're a cog in a machine. You're a part of a collective. Your duty is to the collective, which means that your duty is to the state since the state is what relegates duty to the collective.

Marxism might be really great as a religion, because maybe then it wouldn't naturally need a state and maybe it would be about people framing themselves as groups (things religions already do). Though as a political ideal, it seems to need an all-powerful state and seems to eradicate individualism and liberty.

That's true only if you look at communist regimes. Marx's view of socialism was that when there's enough production and prosperity to comfortably take care of everyone, it is the key to ensure everyone a good life. Of course, this requires there to be enough production and prosperity, and that's why Marx saw capitalism as the necessary step towards socialism. Soviet Union, for example, tried to take a shortcut straight to communism, and with poverty and rampant corruption that didn't end so well. They were all intents and purposes dictatorships, not liberal in any way. The countries that most closely follow social liberalism's principles nowadays are probably the Nordic states, which seem to be doing pretty well in most metrics. I guess in the US the most notable social liberal was FDR with his New Deal.

[wufwugy]

That's true only if you look at communist regimes. Marx's view of socialism was that when there's enough production and prosperity to comfortably take care of everyone, it is the key to ensure everyone a good life. Of course, this requires there to be enough production and prosperity, and that's why Marx saw capitalism as the necessary step towards socialism. Soviet Union, for example, tried to take a shortcut straight to communism, and with poverty and rampant corruption that didn't end so well. They were all intents and purposes dictatorships, not liberal in any way. The countries that most closely follow social liberalism's principles nowadays are probably the Nordic states, which seem to be doing pretty well in most metrics. I guess in the US the most notable social liberal was FDR with his New Deal.

Unfortunately for Marx, the socialist Utopia deteriorates the production that is already there.

Scandinavia is an interesting case, and it's important to point out that they have some VERY good capitalism. They have some of the best capitalism, like in some ways their state policies are among the best in the world for businesses. Given this and given the ethic of the people and the relative peace, it doesn't surprise me that they do how they do. Granted, I predict that their lack of conservatism will over the long haul cause them real damage and we're already seeing it happen.