Fearing the set

[Les_Worm]

I flop top two and a guys goes all in for quite a bit of chips early in the tourney. I had to think whether this guy had a set or not. Unfortunately I didn't know anything about my opponent. I just couldn't lay top two down. I figured if he had a set then "thats poker." Also since the flop was a rainbow I wasn't scared of any draws. What do you guys think? Automatic call or is there some thinking involved. I think for me, If I have to do this a million times, I call everytime.

***** Hand History for Game 859213397 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5327791) - Thu Aug 19 10:12:58 EDT 2004
Table Table 13798 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: GRANNY8 (1580)
Seat 2: The_Dozer (710)
Seat 4: EwaLotte (645)
Seat 5: MushinPocket (1660)
Seat 6: racertom (815)
Seat 7: talcdon (635)
Seat 8: player222 (35)
Seat 9: G_Money521 (885)
Seat 10: thomasfordii (1035)
thomasfordii posts small blind (10)
GRANNY8 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to G_Money521 [ Ah, 9c ]
The_Dozer folds.
EwaLotte folds.
MushinPocket folds.
racertom calls (15)
talcdon calls (15)
player222 raises (35) to 35
player222 is all-In.
G_Money521 calls (35)
thomasfordii calls (25)
GRANNY8 folds.
racertom calls (20)
talcdon calls (20)
Creating Main Pot with $190 with player222
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ad, 9s, 8h ]
thomasfordii checks.
racertom bets (780)
racertom is all-In.
talcdon folds.
G_Money521 calls (780)
thomasfordii folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 3d ]
Creating Side Pot 1 with $1560 with racertom
** Summary **
Main Pot: 190 | Side Pot 1: 1560 |
Board: [ Ad 9s 8h 3c 3d ]
GRANNY8 balance 1565, lost 15 (folded)
The_Dozer balance 710, didn't bet (folded)
EwaLotte balance 645, didn't bet (folded)
MushinPocket balance 1660, didn't bet (folded)
racertom balance 0, lost 815 [ 8c 9h ] [ two pairs, nines and eights -- Ad,9h,9s,8c,8h ]
talcdon balance 600, lost 35 (folded)
player222 balance 0, lost 35 [ 8s As ] [ two pairs, aces and eights -- As,Ad,9s,8s,8h ]
G_Money521 balance 1820, bet 815, collected 1750, net +935 [ Ah 9c ] [ two pairs, aces and nines -- Ah,Ad,9c,9s,8h ]
thomasfordii balance 1000, lost 35 (folded)

[Bvest65]

I think you played it great, seeing as how hard he bet, I wouldn't have laid that down either. You flopped a great hand, and like you said, if he had the set, "that's poker"

Nicely Played


Billy

[hig13]

It's not always the case, but many people who over bet the pot don't want any callers. The person who went all in had bottom 2 pairs. It would appear that he believe that his hand was the best, about didn't want anyone to draw against him. If he were to have a set, with little or no fear of a flush his bet would have probably been smaller inducing bets from someone who held only an Ace.

Bottom line, you read him correctly. Congrats! If I flop top two pair and see an over bet in front of me, I would call. It would be scarier for me to see a check raise in this case. Good call!

[Iconoclastic]

Personally, I woulda folded. The main reason for my differing opinion is that 8 and 9 were on the table. JT or a similar hand could very well have been one of the several people who saw the flop. With the pot around one fourth of my stack (from his perspective) I'd much rather win a pretty big pot then risk losing it to a straight. If I had a set, I woulda made a huge bet to discourage chasers or to make em pay.

But that's just me. I woulda played a set in the way that he played it, so that's why I woulda folded. But it turned out good for you.

BTW he's just an idiot for going all in with low two pair 8-)

[Les_Worm]

Personally, I woulda folded. JT or a similar hand could very well have been one of the several people who saw the flop.

If I knew he had JT or anyone else for that matter, I'd call EVERYTIME with top two.

[michael1123]

Of course. He's saying that he may have bet a set like that because of his fear of JT.

Personally, I play it like you, and assume a set wouldn't bet that big on the flop, even with a draw usually, unless I have a read on them. Then again, that's why I was first out of the FTR Openhouse

[Fnord]

Personally, I play it like you, and assume a set wouldn't bet that big on the flop, even with a draw usually, unless I have a read on them.

I always slow play my sets....

[michael1123]

Same. Most good players do, or at least represent at most TPTK, so its tricky when someone shoves all in immediately on a set. It looks like a much weaker hand. Bottom two pair, ironically with this post, is the best hand I put them on in this circumstance. Even with a flush draw usually, but there it could be a pair and a flush draw or something of the like.

Top two pair or better, especially without a flush draw, is almost always going to play it much slower. Maybe bet the size of the pot, but very rarely overbet by that much.

[AllinLife]

I am thinking.. with rainbow flop, not much of straight draw, wouldn't you slowplay your set?

I would probably have called him thinking he had TPPK, possibly the lower 2 pair.

[drmcboy]

ah the all in second hand of the tourney people - I always think they are buying but usually fold anyway and curse when no one else calls. Nice work.

If I had been sitting at the table I think I would have put him on A9 on the all in, then put you on a set when you called .

[Krapp]

In your situation, I would always call an all-in with 2-pair. From my experience (early blind play in SnG games), I see alot of crap all-in ins preflop (A10+, 7/7+), flop (Ace pair, top kicker). I wouldnt even hesitate if I saw drawing potential on the flop. They might be playing for flush/straight draw with top-pair, which you are still a favorite.

Obviously, the good players wont go all-in with trips on the flop or strong draws. The all-in bet is a sign of bad play and it would be my job to double my chip count from it.