Rules question, plus I need someone to pity me

[drmcboy]

30/3 SNG at PS - blinds 75/150 - I'm in third chip postion with 7 left in the BB. Pick up AA. UTG is small stack, he goes AI with 250. Guy that is second in chips calls. It gets to me... I want to push but my only option was to call the 100 raise or fold.

Why can't I raise here? Obviously the small stack is already AI, but shouldn't I still be able to raise the other guys' bet?

Anyway, I call, flop comes 245 with two hearts, the other guy pushes AI. I call, he turns over Kh3h! Then the A hits on the turn, and he's made the wheel str8. Small stack had Jh10h, both of us go out.

I assume if I had been able to raise pre flop he would have folded... so what's the deal?

[lonnie]

For a raise to be legal it must be at least as much as the previous bet or raise. If someone raises AI and it isn't enough to be a legal raise, then everyone behind can just call.

This is a shitty rule in my opinion...if you want to isolate the AI guy, you just can't. It really sucks when his raise is only for 15.00 or something. Whose going to fold to that?

I'm not sure that all poker software uses this rule, but I know for sure that Party and Poker Stars does.

[koolmoe]

There is a rule that a less than full raise doesn't reopen the action. For example, you limp, small stack behind you pushes and raises less than a full bet (min raise is $150 bringing the total to $300 in this case), player behind small stack just calls. The action will come back to you to call the $100, but you can't raise since there was no raise behind you, and the action is not technically reopened.

In this case, however, you should have had the option to raise if the action to you was your first action in the hand. I'd send PS the hand history and complain if your recounting of the hand is accurate. Sounds like a possible bug in the software.

I could be wrong here, but those are the rules as I understand them.

[koolmoe]

3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already checked or called may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)
Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn't fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)

Thta's the relevant section from Robert's rules of poker. Shouldn't apply to the situation you described. Can you post the hand history?

[Ragingg]

I've noticed this too in online poker... When someone goes all in, other players can't reraise preflop or something... not sure

[DaNutsInYoEye]

If a player goes all in with a raise rather than a call, a special rule comes into play. There are two options in common use here: Pot limit and No limit games always use what is called the full bet rule, while Fixed limit or Spread limit games use either the full bet rule or the half bet rule. The full bet rule states that if the amount of an all in raise does not equal the full amount of the previous raise, it does not consitute a "real" raise, and therefore does not reopen the betting action. The half bet rule states that if an all in raise is equal to or larger than half the bet being raised, it does constitute a raise and reopens the action.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...366&highlight=

[drmcboy]

I'm at work, I'll try and get it posted though.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll also vote for this being a stupid rule.

In this case, however, you should have had the option to raise if the action to you was your first action in the hand.

I had not acted... but I had posted the blind, maybe that counts?