The formation of a poker player.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm at an interesting point in my development as a poker player. I have basically two schools of though being taught to me by 3 very successful players. Down here at college I ran into two very legitmate players. Both are very LAggy and dynamic players and I, like you all, have fallen under the guidance of soupie from this forum. I was in a spirited debate with my two college chaps (who far outclass myself) and they both veheimently tell me that you need to make big moves after the halfway point of the tourny and leading to the bubble. They both say they can place ITM 16-20% of the time but when they do it, they are always near the chiplead and expect a final table apperence and are tilted by an 8th place finish. I say that if you play to survive you put yourself ITM 33-40% of the time (maybe a bit high, i'm trying to figure that out) and you'll have the table image of a rock and be able to steal large sums of blinds and with a decent run of cards place well.

My question is mainly for soupie but open to everyone: What system do you think would work best for: 100 people tournies live (slower blinds, live play), 200 people tournies online (fast blinds), 1000 people tournies online(fast blinds, big field), 3000 player tournies at the WSOP (slow blinds, big field)? Or just overall.

-'rilla

[FlyingSaucy]

waiting soupies response. In the mean time, just some ramblings...

The faster the blinds go, the less patience is required and the degree of variance increases substantially. As we all know, the fast moving blinds can also attract players who want a lot of action. That's why I like SnG's, because you can chill out for a while in the beginning, while the crazies eliminate each other, then suddenly turn it up a notch and eat em up.

I'm not sure there's a right answer to this question, it is just a matter of preference. Of course, the casinos are looking to move the blinds along as quickly as possible, provided they are still getting tons of satisfied players buying in.

I actually like slower moving blinds when I get the chance to play it, but have grown so accustomed to the 10 hands per level, that it sometimes screws me up to have it any other way.

Alright, still awaiting soupies response.

[Radashack]

I'll chime in.

First of all you need to play the way that is best for you. Are you the guy to throw your chips all in on a flush draw and await that miracle 32% catch. Or are you the player to try and check through to see if you can snag the flush then rely on post flop play to make the most of your hand?

I used to play the solid Laagy way when I first started, I have a feeling their ITM estimates are probably a bit high, and their varience would be greater. I've since switched my game and realized it is definetly a better approach for me personally to play solid poker, I wont chase arbitrary all ins on marginal hands. Wont chase draws unless its worthwhile for me(bet sizes), but I will still make big plays. I have no fear of throwing my chips into a pot, but I'm not going to do it to end up in a coin flip, because invariably the coin will flip the other way. Now If I have already established a good chip lead, then i'm more inclined to call coin flips where i may have a slight advantage.

My question is mainly for soupie but open to everyone: What system do you think would work best for: 100 people tournies live (slower blinds, live play), 200 people tournies online (fast blinds), 1000 people tournies online(fast blinds, big field), 3000 player tournies at the WSOP (slow blinds, big field)? Or just overall.

100 people tournies, Laggy in the beginning, tight in the end. Keep a steady roll. Same for all IMO, but of course thats my tourney strategy, I use the same thing for SNG's.

In the end you need to find what you are comfortable with, and build your game consistantly around that.

[Tom23]

Great tips, keep up the good work. These topics relate to a few questions I have. I thought you could add a few thoughts for those of us who are still rookies.

Radashack and Gorilla, could you define laggy. I was playing an MTT this morning at a very weak, very tight table early on. I pulled the most horrid hole cards I have had in a while. I kept thinking I should loosen up a lot, but with what? 10 5o, 7 4o (our favorite), K X. Also they only started us off with 1,000 chips which I don't think is enough. What do you think? If you blow a few aggresive plays you can run out of chips quickly. Maybe it just wasn't my day. If I get out of the gate strong I can keep rolling and adjusting to the people. But if I start off slow things just keep getting worse.

One other thing, lets say you decide to play 7 4o. I try to forget about my hole cards and imagine I have the nuts after the flop and play accordingly. What do you think?

[RD Olivaw]

One other thing, lets say you decide to play 7 4o. I try to forget about my hole cards and imagine I have the nuts after the flop and play accordingly. What do you think?

This is the definition of a bluff.. However you have to pick your spots to pull it off effectively. And you also have to know when to abort the attempt when you are pretty sure you are beat.

For instance, you're on the button and it folds around to you. This is a classic blind steal opportunity. These are the kind of plays you want to make with 74o, because you have no problem at all getting away from the hand if you meet some serious push back or you don't hit a hand on the flop with callers.

Making the same play with Ax or Kx, you get yourself into a sticky situation if you hit top pair. Now you have to make a tough decision if you get action.

[a500lbgorilla]

Well, I dont know what my personal preference is yet. Some days I feel like a rock and play like a rock and it makes for a easy go of things until the bubble where I find myself constantly hanging my neck out on bigger bluffs in an attempt to get chips. Other times I feel like playing a lot of hands and forcing the action at my table. It's easier to recognize monsters when you're playing a lot of hands hard and it's easier to get your monsters paid off in a big way. If I bust out, i've saved myself an hour or two of my time that I can invest on the tables but sometimes you get a huge stack and can cruise to a top 5 finish. The LAggy approach that they've taught me is not to push in on a flush draw if the pot is huge, its to raise UTG with J9s, play off scare cards and scary boards and make monsters with unexpected holdings. I was just thinking of my situation. I can play 2-3 200 person MTTs a night, so it would probably be more profitable to rock it up and place ITM and just hope for a good run of cards to take you to first when you need them. OR Since I play so many, getting busted out of one is no big deal since there is another one in a half-hour and I can give it another shot. One is a fun tactic and the other is a more effective, I'd just like to explore one a lot more.

-'rilla

[RD Olivaw]

I can play 2-3 200 person MTTs a night, so it would probably be more profitable to rock it up and place ITM and just hope for a good run of cards to take you to first when you need them. OR Since I play so many, getting busted out of one is no big deal since there is another one in a half-hour and I can give it another shot. One is a fun tactic and the other is a more effective, I'd just like to explore one a lot more.

This would be a very interesting experiment if you played half rock, half LAGy over some time and compared the separate results.

[allLiving]

This would be a very interesting experiment if you played half rock, half LAGy over some time and compared the separate results.

Agreed, if I had time I would do this.

[a500lbgorilla]

Alright, I'll see if I can do it. It'll be a secondary quest. Should be interesting. Results won't be ready for a few months though.

-'rilla

[soupie]

The initial premise of this post was what type of play is appropriate for various tourneyments structures. I reject the premise.

There are great tourney players that seem to play tight or loose and they win more than their share. These players are smart enough however to not marry their supposed playing style and they play the table first and foremost. A great loose player will not steal if he knows he is going to get caught often enough to make it unprofitable and a great tight player will not wait for great hands if he knows he has to pick up some chips to survive further rounds. There is an instant adjustment to strategy with both of these types of players.

They play the table first.

You will do best then to play your personality first. If you are a rock like me, you sit and wait as long as you can, before you mix it up. If u like to play more hands, you look for low risk situations to see a flop more often than me, both strategies can be very successful on a given night. I have built a huge stack many of times only playing top tier hands, it works for me. You may be able to play more hands than me and be more successful, thats great if it works for you.

Going into a tourney with a playing style in mind is a recipe for disaster, you are going to play contrary to what is natural to you ( otherwise you wouldnt have to think about it) and secondly you are not going to be playing the table first.

Regards,

soupie

[elanto]

When soupie first mentioned in his original posts that you should be tight I was sort of confused as to how tight you should be. When soupie says hes a rock he really means it, just watch soupie play for two hours, hell sometimes only play >5 and still be in great shape to win the tourney, its amazing actually.....


-anto

[soupie]

to reitterate i am a firm believer in gambling when you likely have the best hand. its not all that often i am confident i have the best hand.

Regards

soupie