1st Las Vegas Live Hand

[scgolfer]

Playing $100 NL @ the Luxor On Thursday Night. They have a 3 blind system 1,1,2.
Im the BB with Q8o
3 limpers plus both SB's
Flop is QQ9 rainbow.
SB's Check, I check
MP bets $15 (about Pot size)
Everyone folds to me I raise to $30. (Check Raise)
MP goes all in for about $80.
I have him covered by $10

Just sat down, played on orbit, no read other than the person didnt play many hands.

Call all in or Fold?

[TylerK]

I don't know what I'd do if I were faced with this situation in real life, but in the safe warm glow of my computer screen, clear fold. There are too many limping hands that can beat you here. The worst hand he could be holding is Q-worse kicker, and I just wouldn't take that risk without a read on the player.

[a500lbgorilla]

As I understand it (which is not at all) online play is a tighter than live play. Is it possible for them to be playing A9 like this? I just don't have enough experience in live play to make any sort of call here. So I didn't vote.

-'rilla

[Humphrind]

He bet $80 into a $60 pot. There are only 2 hands he could have. 99, or Qx and if it's Qx, I'm worried about that 8 kicker. If you call you are behind. DO you really want to play that and try to catch?

[a500lbgorilla]

Slowplay AA, KK.. maybe overvalue JJ, TT, A9?

-'rilla

[Humphrind]

Slowplay AA, KK.. maybe overvalue JJ, TT, A9?

I'm assuming this player is not a complete moron.

1) He has AA, KK and slow plays it. When that flop comes he is worried about 1 thing, who has a Q? He doesn't wonder if someone has it, he wonders who. He will raise, and he may re-raise. But why would he put himself all-in with a losing hand? If he did have AA or KK, he is a complete moron, or he picked up on a good tell of golfers that made him think he could push golfer out of this pot.

2) He overvalued JJ, TT or A9. Again, for me to buy this I'm gonna need to see some single digit IQ scores. If this guy were VERY LAggy, he may try to pull this off. SOmetimes you can get some real gamblers at the casino who just want to put their money in the middle and hope for the best. But this guy is facing a check/raise. He has to either have a good tell on golfer, or have a better hand than Q7.

[a500lbgorilla]

I think you're right. Into a 6 way limp pot, it would be difficult to credit anyone willing to push allin with a second best hand against Q8o.

-'rilla

[Eric]

I just played at Mandalay Bay. Overall the players were not very good. If I was against good players online then I would be more worried about Q9 or 99. The player could also have AQ, KQ, QJ or QT but you have more outs for those hands. It is hard to say but I think I would make the call in Vegas(but not online).

Fold, 99 or QX, and with QX you should expect him to have higher than an 8 kicker.

[scgolfer]

Here's what I was thinking
If he has Q9 or Qx bigger kicker, why does he bet pot size bet? Wouldnt a slow play or a "feeler" value bet to see if he can get a few callers or a check be better? Normally everyone folds when a board comes out like this, if someone bets. When I check raised him, I was either making a big bluff or he has to think I have a Queen. He thought for about 3 seconds and push all in. Just from the way he did his push in I thought I was beat. At least for me normally people arent thinking fast enough to try a check raise bluff. So when he "reraised my check raise" I thought for a while and FOLDED. Just instinctively I felt I was behind and wasnt going to pay $70 to see if I could catch up. He didnt show so I'll never know for sure. The guys on my end of the table were amazed I folded. I showed them my cards when I did. They both said neither of them had the "discipline" to fold that hand even if they were beat. But I didnt respect either of their play anyways, so oh well!
I'll be posting my entire trip stats later today and what I did with Hand #2.

[DavSimon]

My gut feeling is the the $15 bet was the feeler bet - you raised and he felt that he hooked the caller he was looking for...just got too excited and bet you out. A-Q, K-Q, Q-9, or 9-9.
I think that was a good fold....however I am a little gunshy. I got caught in a similar situation at Ballys ($200NL) in Sept. I had K-Q -raised around $25 preflop (there were a lot of limpers)... flop came Q-Q-x - I bet $100...folded around to button - He pushes all-in, I think for a second...and decide he would not have called a big PFR with Q-7 or Q-6 (which would have meant he flopped a boat) - I call off my remaining $90-100 and he turns over AQ.....I was blinded by the set (putting him on Q-lower kicker like T or J) I never even considered A-Q until it slapped me in the face....it could have just as easily been 7-7...(which I did not consider either) bad call, and lack of experience on my part - I was not thinking too clearly. Long way to say I think that was a good laydown.

[Fnord]

The guys on my end of the table were amazed I folded. I showed them my cards when I did. They both said neither of them had the "discipline" to fold that hand even if they were beat.

Ick. I'd rather have a LAggy table image when playing NL. "I guess my 9 is no good, *fold*."

[DrNoChance]

The guys on my end of the table were amazed I folded. I showed them my cards when I did. They both said neither of them had the "discipline" to fold that hand even if they were beat.

Ick. I'd rather have a LAggy table image when playing NL. "I guess my 9 is no good, *fold*."

Agreed. In my opinion the last thing you want to do is let them know you can fold a hand. Don't induce bluffs unless you are prepared to make some loose calls later on.