Blind steal gone good/bad/good again/who knows where?

[LeFou]

Questions for discussion:
-Don't you think a PF reraise is an interesting steal technique? We're all taught (I remember it in soupie's thread) that a raise could well be a bluff but a reraise ain't. Or is it?
-2 pair is lucky enough, a boat is even luckier. Then shebang! your boat is sunk!
-Or is it?
-What do you do?

*********** # 162 **************
PokerStars Game #914608309: Tournament #3682815, Hold'em No Limit -
Level VII (100/200) - 2004/12/01 - 23:49:51 (ET)
Table '3682815 2' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: zenbitz (23960 in chips)
Seat 2: NuWere (4440 in chips)
Seat 3: AvatarKava (4600 in chips)
zenbitz: posts the ante 25
NuWere: posts the ante 25
AvatarKava: posts the ante 25
zenbitz: posts small blind 100
NuWere: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NuWere [8c 3c]
AvatarKava: folds
zenbitz: raises 600 to 800
Smack29 [observer] said, "called me a bad blind stealer"
AvatarKava said, "you mean the Fnord comment?"
NuWere: raises 600 to 1400
zenbitz: calls 600
*** FLOP *** [Kc 3d 8h]
AvatarKava said, "no that was NuWere"
500lbgorilla [observer] said, "Holy crap, NuWere hacks."
zenbitz: checks
AvatarKava said, "when i reraised on him"
NuWere: checks
*** TURN *** [Kc 3d 8h] [8s]
zenbitz: checks
NuWere: checks
*** RIVER *** [Kc 3d 8h 8s] [Kh]
zenbitz: bets 1400

[soupie]

The preflop reraise is almost never a bluff. I will sometimes do it, maybe every 2 or 3 nights, under the following 4 conditions, i have a good read on the player, i need the chips badly, I have position so only one two more people are left to act and i have enough chips to make the call unlikely with the reraise. If these 4 conditions are met, i will truly bluff at the pot with any 2 cards. As you can see, it is very hard to get things to line up to make this play worth while.

If you thing you are going to make a living reraising on bluffs, you are mistaken in my opinion. If it works for you post it up and let analyze the strat.

Regards,

soupie

[LeFou]

If you thing you are going to make a living reraising on bluffs, you are mistaken in my opinion

Quite right. It's not "interesting" in the sense that you should do it all the time.

I just think it's a good wild card, once every several sessions I guess, like you said. Now my conditions are not as well thought-out. I'll try it if and only if I'm pretty sure to get a fold, for whatever combination of the reasons you mention.

But how does this example hold up, in your opinion?

-I have a notion that Zen raises more when he's got a pair, and that he's quite capable of to laying down middling cards (i.e. non-pairs)
-I don't technically need the chips to stay in the tournament, but to have a shot at Zen (5X my stack) I'd say I want them badly.
-Position/# of players checks out

Also, I'd still love to know what you do with that rive bet?

[elanto]

I would call Lefou, he checked it to the river and i doubt that he was slowplaying his pair of kings so yeah i would make this call

another thing, why did you check it to the river, at least make a bet in the flop to see if he has the king, i would have bet the min on the flop and if he raisesim pretty sure he has that king so thn you could be able to fold to that river bet, but the way you played it you have no clue what zen has you should call his river bet IMO.



-anto

[RD Olivaw]

IMO, the pot was big enough on the flop to take a shot.. Then on the turn I could understand the slow play.

However considering the pre-flop action and then the check-down It was either a steal bet on the river with AQ, or a filled up AK.

[LeFou]

IMO, the pot was big enough on the flop to take a shot.. Then on the turn I could understand the slow play.

However considering the pre-flop action and then the check-down It was either a steal bet on the river with AQ, or a filled up AK.

Yes, with that flop and turn I was praying for AK. With that river I thought my prayer had been answered by Satan.

But with a tolerable likelihood of AQ, maybe AJ, and an inkling that he put me on a similar hand, I think the correct play is

NuWere: raises 1400 to 2800
zenbitz: calls 1400

Which surprised and pleased me very much. Any K would go all in, of course (making my response easy). For anything other than a K it seems like an easy fold for Zen. You wanna chime in, Zen?