Let 'er rip... I can take it.

[Spook]

Hey folks,

The other day I stopped into a free local bar tournament. The structure of the tourney is a little wierd.

• NLHE
• You get 500 in chips
• Everyone antes 10 every round, button antes 20
• Button gets dealt first and acts first

There are around 50 people signed up and they filter into the 3 tables they had as other players drop. I had played in a couple of these before and went out pretty quick in both of them, we'll just call it bad cards and leave it at that . I figure with this structure you will only see around 30 hands before your stack has been chipped down to non-effective.

I'd like comments on this situation...

A bunch of people had dropped from the table I sat down at before I got there. I was able to see a cheap flop or two, but nothing worth playing with. After a lot of folding eventually I get dealt

At this point I have 275 left in my stack, and these are the nicest cards I've had.
The button is 3 positions to my left.

Button checks
Player 2 bets 100 (a big stack... just gained in the last hand)
Player 3 folds
Player 4 folds
Player 5 Raises to 200 (another big stack)
Player 6 Calls 200 (chip leader)
Spook goes all in
Player 8 folds
Player 9 goes all in for 225
Button folds
Player 2 calls
Player 5 calls
Player 6 calls

I'll define "big stack" as over 1500 here. My read on each of the players involved ahead of me was pretty loose aggressive, I couldnt put them on a hand at that point but this type of action wasn't uncommon from any of them. My thought before going in was something along the lines of "three people in the pot with me while I have a shot at a nut flush... cha-ching". The guy in behind me was a bonus.

So, was this a bad play? If so... how bad?

[a500lbgorilla]

Flushes are long shots and you're easily dominated by a lot of raising hands. You maybe have 3 clean outs or none. (An overpair to the 7 and someone else is sharing the ace with a better kicker) I know you're hurting, but you'd be better off pushing with suited connectors and no raises than with Axs and 3 big bets.

-'rilla

[michael1123]

Yeah, if you're player 9, I think its a really bad call (that looks a lot better than it is). There's way too much action in front of you, and I'd guess that at least 90% of the time in this situation you'd be dominated (either one player has a higher ace or has a pocket pair over 7s, both of which leave you with just 3 outs), and it could be REALLY bad if both of those are out there, which is extremely possible (depending on the size of the blinds, I'm not sure how big a 100 chip raise is in this game).

The worst part about the call, though, is this line of thinking:

My thought before going in was something along the lines of "three people in the pot with me while I have a shot at a nut flush... cha-ching".

This line of thinking that you have a good chance to win because your cards are suited could really end up losing you a lot of money in the long run.

You don't have a flush draw, you have two suited cards, and being suited in an all in situation means very very very little. It only helps on the rather rare occasion that you hit two of the suit on the flop, and that still just gives you a chance to hit a flush. Its an implied odds hand that's good for seeing a flop cheaply and then possibly winning a big pot. But seeing it cheaply is best because you aren't even going to hit a draw the vast majority of the time.

Anyway, this is a good all in hand if it folds around to you in rather late position, if you're a short stack. As strange as it may sound (since I know it looks like a good hand to pick up when you're a short stack), its a really bad call here, no matter what the result was in this hand. You gotta be considering the action in front of you, and what types of hands they likely have.

[elanto]

Yeah, if you're player 9, I.

he wasnt player nine, he was player "spook", however all your points still apply,and I agree it wasnt a good call. A7s may be a good hand to push if youre in LP and everyone has folded to you, otherwise its a clear fold.


-anto