How would play this hand.

[strangebird]

Soupie, rippy, Michael1123 all the MTT guys.

This was pretty deep in the starts 350K tournay. About 230 left. 180 get paid.

PokerStars Game #952314914: Tournament #3657555, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2004/12/12 - 19:27:51 (ET)
Table '3657555 140' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: iconoclast (81844 in chips)
Seat 2: AudiGWD (32112 in chips)
Seat 3: itwassooted! (22830 in chips)
Seat 4: theoneseyes (31318 in chips)
Seat 6: Axabaxa (33168 in chips)
Seat 7: fearmedotcom (14337 in chips)
Seat 8: theman3232 (19857 in chips)
Seat 9: BigBadBoss (9763 in chips)
iconoclast: posts the ante 75
AudiGWD: posts the ante 75
itwassooted!: posts the ante 75
theoneseyes: posts the ante 75
Axabaxa: posts the ante 75
fearmedotcom: posts the ante 75
theman3232: posts the ante 75
BigBadBoss: posts the ante 75
iconoclast: posts small blind 600
AudiGWD: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AudiGWD [5d 2s]
itwassooted!: folds
theoneseyes: folds
Axabaxa: folds
fearmedotcom: folds
theman3232: folds
BigBadBoss: folds
iconoclast: calls 600
AudiGWD: checks
*** FLOP *** [2h Qh 5c]
iconoclast: bets 2400
AudiGWD: raises 28437 to 30837 and is all-in
iconoclast: calls 28437
*** TURN *** [2h Qh 5c] [Kh]
BigBadBoss said, "LUUUUUCKY YOU"
*** RIVER *** [2h Qh 5c Kh] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
iconoclast: shows [5h Qc] (two pair, Queens and Fives)
AudiGWD: shows [5d 2s] (two pair, Fives and Deuces)
iconoclast collected 64674 from pot
FTIBBS is connected
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 64674 | Rake 0
Board [2h Qh 5c Kh 7s]
Seat 1: iconoclast (small blind) showed [5h Qc] and won (64674) with two pair, Queens and Fives
Seat 2: AudiGWD (big blind) showed [5d 2s] and lost with two pair, Fives and Deuces
Seat 3: itwassooted! folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: theoneseyes folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Axabaxa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: fearmedotcom folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: theman3232 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: BigBadBoss (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[a500lbgorilla]

Soupie, rippy, Michael1123...

*cough*

I don't see how you're not losing your stack. He didn't raise from the SB so he'd have to had Q5/Q2. He woulda preraised with any pocket pair so a set is outta the question.

Why bet huge on the flop? You've got a good chance of scaring away lesser hands, a raise is fine just not so huge maybe.

-'rilla

[strangebird]

Soupie, rippy, Michael1123...

*cough*

I started at the end of the alphabet.

Why bet huge on the flop? You've got a good chance of scaring away lesser hands, a raise is fine just not so huge maybe.

-'rilla

That crossed my mind, but he had a huge stack, and was calling fairly big raises with 2nd and 3rd pair all night. I didnt want to get out drawn.

[Toasty]

Wow Strangebird I actually busted out of a Sat in pretty much the exact same way.

BB with J2

2 limpers i check

Flop J62R

I bet its raised i re-raise its raised I push he calls and shows me J6 i dont improve. Now the only reason i pushed so hard was because I'd just won a coin flip vs the J6 guy the hand before and thought he might be steaming a little bit.

My thoughts later were thus:

It was an unraised pot, so J6 was a probable holding, 66 is also possible.

I had very little money invested so didn't have any reason to commit so much money to the pot.

I was roughly in 2ndish with 1 and 2 paying (down to 5) and knew I would have had plenty of better opps than this.

If he did only have one pair, if the board paired middle pair or came out running pairs I still would have lost.

My new mantra is : Never go broke in an unraised pot with top and bottom pair (or top two for that matter) I'll try to see it through cheap or fold if I veiw the player as sane.

My problem was I was on a high from doubling up on the last hand and seen my 2 pair and went nuts, I imagine you done something similar ("Woot 2 pair raise raise raise").

I think the best way to play Top and Bottom pair is to play it cautously if you hit a lot of heat from what you view as a sane player.

From now on I plan to raise and if re-raised slow down or fold, depending of course on stacks and how deep the tourney is etc...

In your case and my case I think a re-raise could have got the information we needed as we would have been pushed all-in. Of course people will push with tptk also but top and bottom pair isn't a huge favourite vs this hand either, if you throw in a FD (which was out on your flop) you could well be a dog vs TPTK+FD.

Hope this helps :P I've been replaying the J2 hand in my head for about 3 days now I also think raiseing PF can be an option of the circumstances are right, in my case I think they were in your case I don't think they are there due to the big stack being in the pot.

[HeavyP]

I believe Fnord said it best. "Two pair is not a license to print money." Two pair is NEVER the nuts, so never get too confident with it.

[Radashack]

While I can see where you are coming from with the huge raise Bird. You have to see you are getting nothing for it. Is it a pot steal? no. Is he going to call with anything less then 2 pair? Maybe, but at that stage doubtful. I've made similar plays and lost in similar ways, needless to say I don't do those anymore.

I would have raised this hand, he would have pushed allin, and I would have been in the tank. At that point I would way the chips stacks at my table with what i have left, knowing my opponent limped he could have hit something better then me on trash, and the general placement in the tourney I would have folded out.

Never go out on marginal hands: 52 even after hitting 2 pair is a marginal hand.

[Iconoclastic]

I can't believe someone stole my ScreenName! That imposter!

If you really had him read like a letter as a person who would bet the pot with bottom or middle pair and would call an all in (that's pretty loose) then you have to trust your read and make the play.

Maybe you could reevaluate your read.

[Mony B]

I think heavyP said it pretty good even though he was quoteing fnord so they both said it good. I think maybe if you doubled his bet it might have served you better instead of putting all your chips at risk. I probabaly would not have put him on a flush draw, from the looks of it he acted before you so him betting a flush draw is sort of out of the question (by the size of his bet). He might have trying to switch it up and lead into you but this is where the double his bet could come into play. If you would have raised a little bit it you might have been able to find where you are at in the battle.

[Wet_DreaMer]

I would have put him on Qx or a bluff with at least one over card. I woulda played exactly as you did. Your most likely ahead, but with lots of ways to be drawn out on.

Push your chips in.

[Molinero]

...Two pair is NEVER the nuts, so never get too confident with it.

Funny you should mention that. In fact, a full house can't be the Nuts nuts, either. Hmm... that sure sucks.

[a500lbgorilla]

...Two pair is NEVER the nuts, so never get too confident with it.

Funny you should mention that. In fact, a full house can't be the Nuts nuts, either. Hmm... that sure sucks.

AAK65 and you hold AKo.

-'rilla

[Sed]

But for the the other guy holding KK

- sed

[a500lbgorilla]

But for the the other guy holding KK

- sed

huh?

-'rilla

[whileone]

he means it sucks for the guy holding kk. it's not the nuts.

[FlyingSaucy]

...Two pair is NEVER the nuts, so never get too confident with it.

Funny you should mention that. In fact, a full house can't be the Nuts nuts, either. Hmm... that sure sucks.

AAK65 and you hold AKo.

-'rilla

Am I missing something? Last I checked AA is the nuts to a board of AAK65. In fact any time a full house is possible in holdem, so is 4 of a kind. Maybe I am not getting it.

EDIT: yes, I am not getting it. If you hold AK then it is not possible for someone to hold AA. Nevermind...

[jokerindapack]

Yeah but if it was:

YOU

Player B

Flop:

Turn:

River

are you laying it down...I know I couldn't I'd be in debt for the rest of my life

[a500lbgorilla]

*slaps his face*

To disprove a statement: "something is always/never something." You just have to give 1 instance where that statement is false. I did that, allow us all to move on.

-'rilla

[Molinero]

Perhaps I should've been a bit more clear in what I meant:

A full house can't be the Ever-Loving Gobstopper of Nuts in a given hand. The Pure Mother-Banging, Shit-Eating-Grinning, Bad-Beat-Having Nuts would be the quads.

Right?

And please don't slap me, too, 'rilla...

[Humphrind]

Perhaps I should've been a bit more clear in what I meant:

A full house can't be the Ever-Loving Gobstopper of Nuts in a given hand. The Pure Mother-Banging, Shit-Eating-Grinning, Bad-Beat-Having Nuts would be the quads.

Right?

And please don't slap me, too, 'rilla...

In 'rillas original example his AK was the nuts. AA would beat AK, but it is impossible for someone to hold AA when 'rilla is already holding one of the Aces.

[a500lbgorilla]

*loads his shotgun*

Now, we can do this the hard way... or the shotgunning way.

*Sigh* I can't do this to you. You're so damn beautiful.

*scene zooms out and you see him looking into his mirror*

-'rilla