What would you do?

[TylerK]

CARDSON
***** Hand History for Game 1321151456 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Sunday, December 19, 13:00:41 EDT 2004
Table Bed of Roses (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 8: AbstractRude ( $83.68 )
Seat 9: RESPECT79 ( $47.8 )
Seat 10: rlameh ( $24.3 )
Seat 3: TylerK_ ( $68.3 )
Seat 6: BodaFlack ( $116.25 )
Seat 4: hoping4luck ( $8.25 )
Seat 1: Berters ( $41.3 )
Seat 2: Krazee88 ( $24.5 )
Seat 5: ChimRichold ( $25 )
RESPECT79 posts small blind [$0.25].
rlameh posts big blind [$0.5].
ginger1957 has joined the table.
ChimRichold is sitting out.
>You have options at Bikini babes Table!.
ginger1957 posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TylerK_ [ Qd Qs ]
Berters calls [$0.5].
Krazee88 folds.
TylerK_ raises [$2].
hoping4luck folds.
BodaFlack folds.
ginger1957 calls [$1.5].
AbstractRude folds.
RESPECT79 calls [$1.75].
rlameh calls [$1.5].
Berters folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 5d, 8c ]
RESPECT79 checks.
rlameh bets [$2].
TylerK_ raises [$6].
ginger1957 calls [$6].
RESPECT79 folds.
rlameh calls [$4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ad ]
rlameh checks.
TylerK_ bets [$5].
>You have options at Bikini babes Table!.
ginger1957 calls [$5].
rlameh calls [$5].
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
rlameh is all-In.
...

What now? My read on this player is that he's pretty good, a little loose, aggressive and capable of being tricky.

[a500lbgorilla]

How much was his river all-in?

-'rilla

[TylerK]

How much was his river all-in?

-'rilla

Sorry. It was about 1/4 of the pot, something like $11-12.

[a500lbgorilla]

Alright, initial thoughts was that he was playing the flush draw out of position. Based on your read, it's difficult to assume that the river helped him. He may be attacking your weak-ish turn bet (which I would have made 7-9 bucks).

However, the turn and ginger make this difficult. What was your read on ginger?

-'rilla

[TylerK]

Alright, initial thoughts was that he was playing the flush draw out of position. Based on your read, it's difficult to assume that the river helped him. He may be attacking your weak-ish turn bet (which I would have made 7-9 bucks).

However, the turn and ginger make this difficult. What was your read on ginger?

-'rilla

Ginger: Calling station. Probably chasing the flush, unlikely to have had me beat.

My turn bet was a little weak, but I was pretty much trying to sniff out an ace. I expected either two folds or a raise after that bet, I was surprised at two flat calls, and that set my spidey sense to tingling.

[a500lbgorilla]

Well, then I think you can call here. I'm pretty sure they're both on flush draws. Only sort of back door fear is that one of them had an ace high flush draw.

I would like a second opinion before you post the results, if you don't mind.

-'rilla

[Sykedupp]

i think you might be beat but you should still call that... he MIGHT have been chasing the flush, but what if he flopped 2 pair? turn gives him a house, now your fecked... but i doubt that... who would call a raise with j 5 anyways :-\ i'd call, just to see the cards, 50% of the time you would take that pot, 50% of the time he would hold J A, or some equally good hand...

(he might also have cowboys or rockets)

[a500lbgorilla]

Ew, you're right. There's a great chance he's swinging AJ. Shizzle. My read completely ignored a passive AJ. I gotta disagree with my original response. I think it's more likely that he's playing AJ and less likely that he's bluffing at a missed flush. (I don't think he has enough money to bluff with.) I'm gonna have to fold.

-'rilla

[Sykedupp]

rilla missed a read? tsk you've been bang on every time i read something about you, now i caught you in a mis-read woohoo meee :P lol! 8-)

[Sykedupp]

now i have the psychological advantage if we ever play in the gauntlet haha

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm weak...

-'rilla

[TylerK]

...
TylerK_ folds.
ginger1957 folds.
rlameh does not show cards.
rlameh wins $50.75

I had to lay it down. My gut told me I was soundly beaten, whether that was true or not. The only thing I can't figure out is if he did have AJ, JJ, or any of the hands that beat me, why come out firing on the river?

[a500lbgorilla]

Easy, with AJ he flat called you twice and it was a three person field. On the river, when he figured he was winning, he wanted to make sure a bet was made. (Afraid you would get a bit scared and not bet again)

-'rilla

[DavSimon]

Just thinking out loud::
I think A-J is likely as well...but is so why would he go spastic on the river...If he thinks he is on top why not bet another $5...something you and ginger are essentially obligated to call and then pray for a raise.
If he was on a flush draw I would think he would simply raise big (while he has enough $ to make a real impact) on the turn repping the ace (good scare card w/ a J out there) and take it down right there.
In the end - I am thinking he had J-J from the start and either got overly excited and bet you out at the river or intentionally did that to make it look like a half-hearted steal on the end to encourage a call into his boat.

Were you able to find out what he had - I am really curious now....tough call either way, probably a good laydown (I would have been really...really tempted to call just to see what he was capable of) In the end I think you saved yourself $12

[TylerK]

Dav, my thoughts exactly. I would LOVE to know what he had...almost would have been worth making the call on the end.

I woulda cried and called, it's only 1/4 pot after all. But I would've had a slight incline that I had him as he could well have been bluffing at the missed flush draw here.

[Waggho]

I seriously think he had J5s. If he is a loose aggressive player, what says he doesn´t call a preflop raise while on the big blind hoping he would get that diamond flush heads up against a high pocket pair? At least he wanted to see the flop, and he flopped two pair! If you accept that explanation, his acting post-flop is totally logical, right?
- Bet the flop to test the waters and get some money into the pot.
- Call the raise, assuming that TylerK has a high pocket pair. Not folding this still great hand.
- Check the turn as it is an ace - scary if TylerK has pocket aces.
- Of course calling the $5 bet which is NOT saying "I have pocket aces!"
- Going all-in at he river when he luckily gets a full house. He only had $10-$15 left, right? Why not bet it.

Think about it this way: What hands would you beat? Actually, the only hands are things like JX, J8, 8X. You have nothing but two pair on a paired board. Who would check the Ace turn and bet all in at the river with nothing but a J? Probably not a "pretty good" player. Of course, there is a chance of him drawing to a straight and bluffing at the river. But this is virtually the only hope you have in winning.

I think you did the right thing and saved yourself a couple of dollars. QQ is a rather lousy hand on paired board with an ace on it.

[Chicago_Kid]

He might have had A5c...would have called on the flop. Turn might probably puts him in lead with more outs. River basically seals it, and bets AI to feign a steal and/or get AK AQ or AJ to call.

[Sykedupp]

he also might have had 23o/s... you just dont know, haha

-Chris

[a500lbgorilla]

No.

I know. He has AJ.

-'rilla

[Sykedupp]

yeh i agree on that one, he did the check/call on the turn, then bet big on the river faking a bluff/missed flush draw perfectly... good fold (i think i said that in my earlier post)

-Chris