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food for thought

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  1. #1
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    Default food for thought

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  2. #2
    not to mention leverage gained from winning with it
    "Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
    - Gus Hansen
  3. #3
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    lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
    Is there some place online that you can dig up hypothetical odds situations like that?
    -jay

    "i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
  4. #4
    michael1123's Avatar
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  5. #5
    http://www.cardplayer.com has a pretty cool odds calculator.
  6. #6
    32o is the worst hand in head-to-head play. Even worse than the 72o because you don't have the luxury of having that 7 as a high card.

    Yet even in Sklanskys book he brings up that 32o has a 32% chance to win against a random hand.

    When you're bluffing, and get called out, you still have a 32% chance to win. Those odds aren't that bad.
    I don't know what they have to say
    It makes no difference anyway.
    Whatever it is...
    I'm against it.
  7. #7
    I prefer 2dimes it's nice and simple to use.
    Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
    Barney's back . . . back again . . .
  8. #8
    Good to know. 2/3 ain't looking half as bad as it used to. I should try to play that when my back's against the wall at SNGs.
  9. #9
    michael1123's Avatar
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    This is a pretty good post for using the reverse of that as well. AK is not an automatic winner. But its a probable win against any non pocket pair (a two to one favorite over two lower cards, and better if you dominate with the A or K).

    Certainly don't back away from shoving all in preflop with AK because it seems like it barely hits for you, and then end up going in with 54 later on when you're more desperate.
  10. #10
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  11. #11
    michael1123's Avatar
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    Sometimes I think Ripp really would rather have 72 off than AA.
  12. #12
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael1123
    This is a pretty good post for using the reverse of that as well. AK is not an automatic winner.
    The trick with AK is more often it's way ahead (Ax Kx), a little ahead (non-pair without a shared card) or a little behind (QQ-22) than it is waaayyy behind (AK/KK). The real bitch is that heads-up it often wins unimproved, putting you in a real spot against an aggressive player. It's not so much you being ahead as it is a pretty safe bet you're not behind.
  13. #13
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  14. #14
    michael1123's Avatar
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    I saw it and responded to it, Ripp. It was in my mind when I made that post.
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  16. #16
    michael1123's Avatar
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    That's one play I'll never understand. I guess you're just hoping to pick up the 60 chip blind, but why risk all your chips when you'll lose 2 out of 3 times when you're called? (If they don't have a pocket pair, where you'll lose more often)

    For every one of those you can post, you could post two where you get busted.
  17. #17
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    8c 8d 1511976 88.30 183429 10.71 16899 0.99 0.888
    2s 7c 183429 10.71 1511976 88.30 16899 0.99 0.112
    Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
    Barney's back . . . back again . . .
  18. #18
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  19. #19
    Ripp, you're going to be in for a rough ride when the %s catch up with you . . .
    Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
    Barney's back . . . back again . . .
  20. #20
    michael1123's Avatar
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    I'm sure they must already have, he just doesn't post the ones that lose.
  21. #21
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  22. #22
    There's a big diff though between stealing and pushing 90% of your stack in on a full table. I have no problem raiseing with rags, my point was winning when all in with rags at showdown. FTR showdown my first 2-3 hands won were bluffs
    Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
    Barney's back . . . back again . . .
  23. #23
    michael1123's Avatar
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    Its not about raising with rags to me. Blind stealing certainly is profitable. Its about risking way too many chips to steal a small blind with a HORRID hand that is sure to be a big underdog if you get called.

    Why not wait for A2s to do this? Or 22? Or KT? Or why not just raise 3x BB with 72o, and then fire out a bluff on the flop if you miss, but be prepared to lay the hand down if you get resistence?

    As they say, a small stack should play aggressive, and a big stack should play tight. Now, I don't completely agree with that philosophy (as you can see in my FTR after party hand history), but I do think there's something to be said about not wanting to risk big chunks of your stack on hands that are among the worst you can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripptyde
    do you guys ever see me playing crappy cards like that when I am short stacked or in the beginning of a tourney ? Hell no
    Two hands above when you went all in with 72o. You were the short stack, and the blinds were 60 chips. I really don't see any reason to risk that, ever. You may pick up the 60 chip blind lets say 12 out of 15 times, get called the other 3, get lucky and win one of the calls, and lose the other two. You're still losing money on that play overall.

    Its not that I don't think you're a very good player, Ripp, its just that I think that if you toned your all ins with rags down just a bit, I think you'd be that much better. Sometimes I think you're risking more than the reward, although there are some posts where I do think its called for with huge blinds and you having the huge chip lead.
  24. #24
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  25. #25
    Ripptyde, I havn't once in any of my posts questioned your ability to win tournements and on more than once occasion i've praised your ability.

    All I'm saying is getting all your chips in with 72os when its going to showdown is going to hurt you more than it helps you.
    Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
    Barney's back . . . back again . . .
  26. #26
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  27. #27
    heh didn't know the stakes, thought it was one of your regular ones. I like to pull some crazy $hit myself after a couple of brews when I'm playing low buy-in tourneys.

    As for the people who moan about the way you play, I just love the rare times that happens, my goal is how fast I can get them on tilt.

    "Sorry dude, tell me what you have pre-flop and I can fold if I don't beat it?"
    Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
    Barney's back . . . back again . . .
  28. #28
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripptyde
    There are more of these from TODAY I just dont feel like sifting through my bulk email box its almost 3 AM. I played in about 11 or 12 tourneys (18 player turbos) today....got 1st in 5 of them....2nd in 2 of them, 3rd once and knocked out early in 4. Not even including the heads up matches I hammered out.
    In those Turbos, the blinds go up at a silly rate. I accidently played once once and bubbled out with 2nd pair blind vs blind with like 1/3 of our stacks in pre-flop. Also he's playing heads-up shoot-outs. Both formats where he can play stacks and abuse others for not gambling it up enough.
  29. #29
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  30. #30
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  31. #31
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  32. #32
    michael1123's Avatar
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    Well played, Ripp.

    I only have one question, regarding this hand:

    *********** # 47 **************
    PokerStars Game #574532230: Tournament #2187735, Hold'em No Limit -
    Level VI (100/200) - 2004/07/28 - 05:14:33 (ET)
    Table '2187735 1' Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 2: ripptyde (9625 in chips)
    Seat 3: bestever30 (425 in chips)
    Seat 9: JohnWhy (3450 in chips)
    ripptyde: posts small blind 100
    bestever30: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to ripptyde [Ah Td]
    JohnWhy: raises 200 to 400
    ripptyde: calls 300
    bestever30: raises 25 to 425 and is all-in
    JohnWhy: calls 25
    ripptyde: calls 25
    *** FLOP *** [2s Jh 4c]
    ripptyde: checks
    JohnWhy: checks
    *** TURN *** [2s Jh 4c] [2h]
    ripptyde: bets 1200
    JohnWhy: calls 1200
    *** RIVER *** [2s Jh 4c 2h] [Tc]
    ripptyde: bets 2000
    JohnWhy: calls 1825 and is all-in
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    ripptyde: shows [Ah Td] (two pair, Tens and Deuces)
    JohnWhy: shows [Jd 9d] (two pair, Jacks and Deuces)
    JohnWhy collected 6050 from side pot
    bestever30: shows [Kh Js] (two pair, Jacks and Deuces - King kicker)
    bestever30 collected 1275 from main pot
    ripptyde said, "n1 john"
    Why did you bluff at the turn on a dry hand?
  33. #33
    rippy i am just looking for an honest answer, not bashing, you say you play tight early until you can build a chip lead, and then you use that advantage, yet in the ftr showdown, you were a smaller stack then me at the time and you raise under the gun with suited connectors, alright they are decent cards, but when i reriase and the flop misses and i raise again, why not let it go and look for a better oppourtunity?, You have mentioned u dont play crazy off the wall poker unless you take an early chip lead and then you do it as big stack to pressure and use position to bully people. I just really dont understand your play in the showdown, was this just a freak occurence?
  34. #34
    michael1123's Avatar
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    I was honestly more surprised by Fnord's play. I'd really like to know what he was thinking.

    I guess he thought that you'd be really tight and assume he had a set or two pair if he reraised you all in on the flop and fold, but you had already made a couple big bets (including a pretty big preflop raise if I remember correctly), and clearly had an A and high kicker. I don't see how he could have thought the A8 was good, and I didn't think there was a good chance you'd fold either, as you had already put a sizable amount into the pot and clearly were confident in your hand.
  35. #35
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael1123
    I'd really like to know what he was thinking.
    In a word, confused.

    No re-raise pre-flop.
    Bet into an Ace on the board when there are only 2 left in the deck.
    All-in for like over 2x pot.
    I was thinking set or bottom 2, but wasn't buying it.
    I forgot that Max is gung-ho, but values his hole cards more than Rippy.
  36. #36
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    Ah, yeah, I did remember the hand incorrectly (you were the original aggressor, not him).

    The call to the all-in reraise I thought was pretty loose though. I didn't think Maxx was bluffing that big, that early.
  37. #37
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael1123
    The call to the all-in reraise I thought was pretty loose though. I didn't think Maxx was bluffing that big, that early.
    We've all called with less. Still, I won't argue that it was a good call. Comming from loose cash games, I don't have a whole lot of experience with blind wars.
  38. #38
    thats basically what it was was a blind was, and when you hit top pair it usually is good in a blind war especially when its an ace, unfortunatly he ran into a big hand in the blind, the only hand i was afraid of was AK but i figured he had ace and smaller kicker, and wass just hoping to take it down there so he didnt draw out a second pair on me, but he called and no pair came up for him, and i got a sweet hat , yay
  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord
    We've all called with less.
    It makes me chuckle every time (and it's not often) I see.

    Humphrind wins the pot (3,500) with high card Ace.
    I don't know what they have to say
    It makes no difference anyway.
    Whatever it is...
    I'm against it.

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