Matched betting

[rong]

Why have I never done this? I'm up £200 in one day and expect to clear £1k in a month for little effort and no risk.

[OngBonga]

Well that was a fun half an hour trying to restore access to my betfair account only to find out that I need to verify my age. Shame my passport is out of date and my driver's license is provisional. Plus I haven't got a scanner because who the fuck has a scanner. Fuck you betfair.

[spoonitnow]

This is going to go well.

[rong]

Explain?

[OngBonga]

Well, step 1, reactivate my betfair account is almost complete. I'm just waiting for their admin to determine if the poor quality photos I took of my provisional driving license and bank statement is enough to convince them that I didn't register ten years agao as a 7 y/o boy.

What's step two? I must have smoked at least four bongs to relieve the stress of desperately trying to upload photos to photobucket before my android browser redirects me to ewank where it offers me a porn app for £6. I'm pretty baked now, I don't even know what day it is.

[oskar]

Here's what I don't understand about this: shouldn't the bonus you can get be at best equivalent to 100% rakeback? I mean the people running these sites aren't complete idiots, are they?

[givememyleg]

matched betting? is that the same as parlay bets?

edit - nope, but i still don't understand.

[OngBonga]

I mean the people running these sites aren't complete idiots, are they?

Indeed, but the average person putting money onto a gambling website is a complete idiot... which means most people who register for a bookies and take advantage of free bets will end up losing significantly more than they won because they're gambling addicts.

If you have the discipline to walk away from the bookies when there's no more free bets to exploit, well then you're beating them. They don't mind people succeeding in doing this because you can bet your last dollar that there's a lot more people who do not walk.

[rong]

Most of the time it's just laying off the free bet so you get to keep the free bet, minus the spread minus commission.

[davidfrost]

Sorry, I'm lost. How does laying off get us to keep the free bet?

[rong]

Let's say £50 matched bet.

You bet 50 at evens. You lay off at evens. Regardless of outcome you break even minus 5% commission. So you are now down £2.50.

You have a free £50 bet.

You bet at evens, you lay at evens. If you win, you're £100 up for the bet and £50 down for the lay. If you lose you lost nothing for the bet as it was free and you're up £50 for the lay. Either way up £50. Minus 5% commission.

[rong]

That's a simplified version as you often lose a small percentage from the spread. And if you don't get to keep the stake in the free bet which is often the case then you need to bet at higher odds to ensure a win and will generally only win about 80% of the free bet.

[OngBonga]

The free bet isn't usually going to return the stake. If you put a £50 free bet on at evens, you'll win £50, the same as if you lay it off for evens. Still a profit of course. Certainly that's the case at paddypower.

It's worth noting that if you're gonna lay off a £50 bet on betfair, you need to have in your account enough to cover the liability. At evens that's gonna be £50. That's what's holding me back at the moment. I understand how we're printing money, but you need to have some disposable funds, which I haven't got right now. Maybe next week I can cover £50.

It's also worth nothing you can make more money if you're paying attention to the markets, because the odds fluctuate more honestly on betfair. If you time it right, then you might be able to lay the bet off at worse odds than the bookies gave you, giving you an edge without even considering the free bet.

There's potentially a lot of money that can be made on betfair. Even from a pure gambling point of view, you're getting better odds than a bookies will offer you. Marginally better when it comes to favourites, and a great deal better when it comes to dark horses. But fuck gambling, if you understand how the markets fluctuate, and correctly predict if a price will go up or down, then you can make bets at better odds than you're laying off at, which is printing money. I'm gonna spend an hour or so every day just watching the markets, especially football. I'm thinking of taking on these free bets to build a betfair bankroll, and then try to beat the system. At worst I fail and lose all the free bets that I accumulated. At best I turn a free bankroll into a monster. Could be interesting.

[rong]

You can't really make much from arbitrage as the spread is so thin you need to bet thousands to win a tiny amount and the risk of timing screwing you over isn't that small so with such a small return the risks out way the rewards.

[rong]

I'm so far 200 quid up in 4 days using matched betting so it certainly works.

[OngBonga]

I understand why matched betting works so yeah I'm looking to take advantage as soon as I can cover the betfair liabilities.

And you're right about the spread being thin. But I'll be looking for patterns. Like, are big teams at home generally overbacked before kick off? idk, it's good that I can't cover the betfair liabilities yet, I need to watch the markets for a while without being able to bet.

[rong]

Dude, start with the free 5 quid bet, that way 20 quid on bet fair will cover you. Then work your way up. There's convenient steps of 10, 20, 25, 50, 100, 200.

[OngBonga]

Dude you obviously haven't lived on the dole for a long time, if ever! £20 to me is the difference between smoke or no smoke. I've got more money in my stars account than bank account so I've cleared a small amount of my poker br for this purpose. Gotta wait on that.

[rong]

You could always get a job for like a week and be rolled.

[rong]

I've got a free 200 bet stake not returned that I wanna put on a 10-1, just need to convince the Mrs that I should put 2k onto a gambling site for the lay. she isn't so keen.

[OngBonga]

You could always get a job for like a week and be rolled.

I'll admit, I laughed.

[Keith]

I'll admit, I laughed.

as did all the interviewers when they read his CV.

[rong]

Ahhh Keith!

[rong]

I wonder if I pay more in tax per month than ong receives I'm benefits.

[OngBonga]

I get around £500 a month.

[rong]

So it turns out I have a fourth dependant.

[OngBonga]

You could look at it like that. Or, you could instead consider all the money that is sent to the EU, or spent on military who then in turn bomb the shit out of people for having different ideals to our own. I would bet that my total benefit income is comparable to the expenses claimed by many politicians for their lunches.

Laziness is just a samll part of me not working. I have a serious problem with the system, and it takes me maybe a month of grinding at a job I hate before I start to feel very depressed and pissed off with the world. That is not what life is about. I'm not a confrontational guy at all, but when some cunt in a bad mood starts being an arsehole just because he's the boss, and those who aren't the boss have to tread on eggshells because if you tell the boss to stop being a fucking twat you'll lose your job... fuck that shit. For what? So I can pay my fair share of the war effort, EU bill and MP expenses?

No thanks. I'll have my £500 a month, which is enough for rent, food and a smoke, and very little else. I'm happy enough being a nobody with no assets in this fucked up world.

[OngBonga]

lol a quick bit of googling suggests MPs were getting £15 a day for lunch until the expenses scandal kicked off. That's pretty much what I get a day to live on, including rent. Which I'm fine with. I expect nothing more than food and shelter. I just think that those who think that the unemployed are sponges need to take a serious look at how the world actually works. There's a great many people sponging a lot more out of the system than I could ever dream of. All I want is to not be hungry and homeless. I don't think that's unreasonable to expect that from a supposedly civilised society.

[Keith]

I've just thought of a way to oblige ongie and cut the welfare budget as well.export him to the third world where living costs are cheap , so his food and rent will be a fraction of the price and his smoke is likely to be locally produced and therefore a lot cheaper. weather likely to be better than here as well. THerefore could probably cut his dole money to a third of what it is now and he would likely be better off.

[OngBonga]

Maybe they should legalise cannabis. That would stop me being unemployed very quickly.

[rong]

Lol just could you're a stoner doesn't mean legalised weed would somehow make you employable. What about all the people out there who have spent the last 10 years holding down a job and getting high.

[OngBonga]

lol the point I was making is that I'd be more than happy to grow weed rather than claim benefits. All that's stopping me right now is the idea that I could go to prison for doing something that I don't even consider the slightest bit immoral. If they legalise weed, I'd start growing and I'd be off benefits as soon as the first crop was harvested. What I'm not going to do is go and work for some cunt so that I can spend the rest of my life in misery.

[Keith]

LMFAO ........ don't you think everyone else would immediately think the same thing , grow their own weed and more besides to sell and then find that no one was buying cos they were all growing their own .

[OngBonga]

Is everyone growing tomatoes?

[Keith]

are tomatoes a high value crop?

[OngBonga]

Everyone won't do it for a number of reasons. For a start, people can't be arsed. The investment isn't insignificant. Also, it's not actually that easy. I've done it before. Things can go wrong. Pests and mould are a constant issue. Things like temperatue, humidity and ph levels need constant attention if you're going to get the best quality. People usually do one or two crops, making shit weed in the process that barely gets them high, and give up, because it's not as easy as they thought it would be. Not me. When I was growing I was making quality weed that people thought was being imported from Amsterdam. I just couldn't hack the paranoia.

[OngBonga]

For legal reasons I would like to say that the above post is just me lying through my teeth in a pathetic effort to impress my internet pretend friends. I have never broken any law ever, to the best of my knowledge. Fact.

[Keith]

Everyone won't do it for a number of reasons. For a start, people can't be arsed. The investment isn't insignificant. Also, it's not actually that easy. I've done it before. Things can go wrong. Pests and mould are a constant issue. Things like temperatue, humidity and ph levels need constant attention if you're going to get the best quality. People usually do one or two crops, making shit weed in the process that barely gets them high, and give up, because it's not as easy as they thought it would be. Not me. When I was growing I was making quality weed that people thought was being imported from Amsterdam. I just couldn't hack the paranoia.

in which case you will be up against the market garden scale producers, pests and moulds will be no problem as they will use insecticides and fungicides, heating costs will be reduced by using large greenhouses. they will be able to produce at a price that you won't be able to compete with. You would be really screwed if spain and france legalize too as spains costs of production would be a lot lower and they would have year round cheap production and cheap transport into in the uk.

[rong]

Yeah I'm pretty sure we can all agree that changes to the law would do very little to change the fact that ongbonga is a lazy scrounger. Maybe cutting benefit rates to the point where single people can't afford to live without doing some form of paid work would help. Lol at him getting the "not insignificant" investment as well.

[rong]

Ok, on a more serious note, why do think it's reasonable for a civilised society to pay for you to survive. Because what you're saying is it's reasonable to expect me to pick up your tab. Your reasoning seems to be that because I pay for other things like politicians and bombs that I should also be willing to pay for you to bum around all day getting high and playing poker. I just don't see how you think that's reasonable.

I don't actually mind seeing that some people sponge of the system, because I see it as an unfortunate byproduct of a fantastic safety net. But your argument that your behavior and lifestyle is reasonable to expect to be paid for by the rest of us working is a bit pathetic.

[OngBonga]

Why do I think it's reasonable for a civilised society to pay for me to survive? A few reasons really. First of all, I'm forced into this society. It's not like I can opt out. Also the idea that a civilised society leaves the unemployed to simply fend for themselves, well it kind of negates the idea that it's a civilised society in the first place. What happens if benefits are cut? The welfare bill goes down, but at what cost? Yup, crime goes up massively, which in turn means the prison bill goes up. I can tell you it would cost a lot more to keep me in prison than it costs to keep me idle. But mainly, the real reason why a civilised society has a moral obligation to pick up the tab is because we abolished slavery a century ago. When somebody HAS to go to work to survive, they are a slave. People only have a choice when that choice is viable... and if there's no income for the unemployed, then people do not have a choice. Of course we do have a choice, we're not slaves. But the powers that be try their very best to make us slaves. They drum conformity into our heads from a young age. They sure like to press the idea that those who refuse to engage in the system are scroungers. Even you have the "why should I" attitude that the capitalist system breeds. But of course the real scroungers are the politicians who claim everything off the taxpayer, or the fatcat boss who plays golf while his employees work their asses off for him to be able to afford such a lifestyle. I'm not a scrounger for expecting £15 a day to avoid having to engage the system, beg or steal. The amount of money the taxpayer spends making sure the unemployed are not all homeless and hungry is insignificant when compared to the amount of money waste on other aspects of government.

Basically Dan, I refuse to engage in the system because I fucking hate the system. I'm fiercly anticapitalist and would rather rot away in my house sitting around getting stoned than to spend most of my adult life doing shit I don't want to do for some cunt I don't like for money I don't want.

[OngBonga]

in which case you will be up against the market garden scale producers, pests and moulds will be no problem as they will use insecticides and fungicides, heating costs will be reduced by using large greenhouses. they will be able to produce at a price that you won't be able to compete with. You would be really screwed if spain and france legalize too as spains costs of production would be a lot lower and they would have year round cheap production and cheap transport into in the uk.

Pests and moulds are still a problem because spraying your plants with shit is not a good idea. Not when people are gonna be smoking that shit. All you're doing here is demonstrating why it's harder than people realise. The top companies who are driving the prices down are going to be a problem, yes. But they will not be able to drive the prices down to the point it is unviable for me to do it at home, because a home crop that has constant attention will nearly always provide a better quality crop than a large scale industrial crop. Basically, I'm in no doubt I could find buyers for my weed, if I were to grow again. People want quality smoke, and that doesn't grow like the weeds you find in the garden.

[OngBonga]

Oh and when you say year round, it gives the impression you think that my smoke is grown in the great outdoors, with beautiful rays of sunlight. Not so. I'll have a year round crop growing in the fucking tropics of a Midlands cellar.

[rong]

I think you're problem is a complete lack of ambition which is possibly due to how much weed you smoke. I probably lived a version of your life when I was a student. But even then I had ambitions of something better. £500 per month is a pretty miserable existence. There's so many interesting things to see and do and experience and have sex with in the world. But you miss our on 99.999999% of it.

[rong]

Also, you do engage the system when you take it's money each month. If you really wanted to live outside of the system you'd live in the woods in a shelter made of trees and eat berries and rodents until you died of a horrible disease at a young age. Your argument falls apart here because you'll take what you can from the system when it suits you and then cry foul when it doesn't.

[OngBonga]

Ok so I should go and be miserable at work so I can enjoy life? Is that what you call ambition?

[OngBonga]

Also, you do engage the system when you take it's money each month. If you really wanted to live outside of the system you'd live in the woods in a shelter made of trees and eat berries and rodents until you died of a horrible disease at a young age. Your argument falls apart here because you'll take what you can from the system when it suits you and then cry foul when it doesn't.

Yes, living in the woods is a viable choice, you're totally right here. If I wanted to fuck the system good and proper, I'd just sit in the middle of the road until I got hit by a car or starved.

[rong]

Ok so I should go and be miserable at work so I can enjoy life? Is that what you call ambition?

It's a sacrifice, a trade off. At the moment you sacrifice all of the good things life has to offer in order to sit around getting high. Not to mention the fact that you could always try and get a job you'd enjoy, but that would take time and effort which you aren't willing to spend.

[OngBonga]

It's a sacrifice, a trade off. At the moment you sacrifice all of the good things life has to offer in order to sit around getting high. Not to mention the fact that you could always try and get a job you'd enjoy, but that would take time and effort which you aren't willing to spend.

You're jumping to a few conclusions here. Let's just clear one thing up... I'm 35 years old and have done the working things before. I've had jobs that I enjoy. But even then I didn't like the people I was working for. And you assume that I'm unwilling to put time and effort into making my life better. What makes you think you know me even remotely well enough to draw these conclusions? You're wrong.

I refuse to engage the system because I hate the system. If I go to work, I'm paying tax, which in turn pays for us to bomb the shit out of whoever, and send money to greedy cunts in Europe whose sole mission it is to destroy democracy across the continent.

You think I'm just idle. I'm not. I'm just refusing to play their game.

[rong]

Well you say you have no money, live off benefits and sit around all day getting high. Perhaps there's a whole range of activities you enjoy which you don't share on ftr and you live a fulfilling and exciting life. You're right, I have no idea.

But a lot of what you've said above is just bullshit. You complain about a system and blame the system for your current life yet are happy to sit there taking advantage of it. You are no better than those you criticise. You play the system the same as them. I guess you don't bomb anybody, I'll give you that. Congratulations on winning.

[OngBonga]

I don't blame the system for my current life. Tha's where you're jumping to the wrong conclusion You seem to get the impression I'm unahppy with my life. I'm very happy. It's other people who assume I shouldn't be happy.

I don't "take advantage" of the system. You yourself acknowledge that £500 is a miserable existence. I would not call that "taking advantage", I think those who take advantage are taking MORE than their fair share. People who fuck others over so they can earn more money, they're the ones taking advantage of the system. I'm merely surviving. What do you suggest I do?

[rong]

Lol £500 is not your fair share! You have no fair share. It's fair that the system provides when you need it through unfortunate circumstances. Its like a form of insurance for when you fall on hard times. That money is a portion of what the rest of us pay to ensure that if any of us fall on hard times there is a safety net. You are reducing the size of that safety net by being a non contributing drain on it.

You are fucking over others so you can make money. You're fucking over those who work hard and get fucked by circumstance for your £500. Because you taking it means they have less.

What do I suggest you do? I suggest you get a job and take responsibility for yourself rather than being everybody else's responsibility.

[rong]

Ong, you are not stupid. I don't believe that you believe the crap you are spewing.

[rong]

Or maybe join a hippy commune that is self sufficient.

[rong]

I don't even mind your poncing that much. But at least admit you're a lazy cunt who sponges off the rest of us rather than spouting this self righteous bullshit.

[OngBonga]

I think the idea of "fair share" is massively skewed in a capitalist society.

You have the "why should I" attitude drummed into you. You're telling me that I need ambition and drive to be happy. You're telling me that I need to be productive to claim my fair share. I understand where you're coming from, but it's bullshit.

If you're saying to me that my "miserable existence" of £500 a month is not something that people should outright live on for survival, then you are saying that people have no choice but to work. That, my friend, is slavery, and I will not be a part of that, even if everyone else is too fucking stupid to see that's the way the world works.

[OngBonga]

I don't even mind your poncing that much. But at least admit you're a lazy cunt who sponges off the rest of us rather than spouting this self righteous bullshit.

Yeah I'm a sponge.

Meanwhile, Wayne Rooney is deserving of every penny he gets. The fat fucking granny bashing twat.

[rong]

Ok. So lets rewin a few hundred thousand years. There is no society. You would have to work to eat and shelter yourself. That work would be physical hunter gatherer type stuff. If you didn't, you'd die.

Would that make you a slave.

You have to walk to the toilet to take a shit. Does that physical labour make you a slave?

[rong]

Wayne Rooney is deserving of that money. Through his own effort he nurtured a skill that millions of people are willing to pay to see him perform. Those people pay that money willingly. If they didn't he wouldn't get it.

[OngBonga]

Ok. So lets rewin a few hundred thousand years. There is no society. You would have to work to eat and shelter yourself. That work would be physical hunter gatherer type stuff. If you didn't, you'd die.

Would that make you a slave.

You have to walk to the toilet to take a shit. Does that physical labour make you a slave?

Ok, so does hunting and gathering have minimal benefit to me and huge benefit to someone telling me what to hunt and gather?

Does walking to take a shit take up 2/3 of my waking day?

[OngBonga]

Wayne Rooney is deserving of that money. Through his own effort he nurtured a skill that millions of people are willing to pay to see him perform. Those people pay that money willingly. If they didn't he wouldn't get it.

No Wayne Rooney is not deserving of that money, but I get why you think he is. I don't blame Rooney for taking advantage of all the morons who think kicking a ball is a measure of success. But it definielty goes a long way to demonstrating how fucked up the world is. Rooney earns like £250k a week or whatever, it's sick money. I get £500 a month for doing shit all and I'm made to feel like I'm a bad person for it.

[rong]

That's because you take our money and aren't deserving, we willingly give him our money and he isn't deserving in a moral sense. But we give it to him and you take it from us, that's a big difference.

You take advantage of your fellow citizens by taking from our insurance pot.

You get job seekers allowance, right? Well It's kinda like stealing really. You con us out of our money. I mean if you went to sign on and actually said I'm not looking for work and have no intention of working and I just want this money for nothing then you wouldn't get it.

[OngBonga]

Oh my god you're right, I'm a terrible person. I'm a thief and a liar. I should go to prison.

Dan I have two choices - work, or sign on. There are other options, like find a hippie commune, or die, whatever. But, there's two viable options. I choose to sign on because working makes me very unhappy. You can try to paint me as a bad guy for sponging off the average citizen, but the fact is I have no problem accepting a meagre survival off the taxpayer. I had no problem with the unemployed when I was working, and if I work again in the future I won't have a problem with them. That's because I understand that not everyone is employable, not everyone wants to engage in the system, and that people most certainly should not be forced to.

I am not a bad person for satnding my ground on this issue. If I were pretending to be ill so I could claim sick benefits instead, well than you might have a point. But I'm not. So you can shove your guilt trip up your arse. I'm certainly not intending to take the first job I can find, because doing so will simply result in me being unhappy for six months before I finally have a breakdown and jack it in.

[Luco]

Wayne Rooney is deserving of that money. Through his own effort he nurtured a skill that millions of people are willing to pay to see him perform. Those people pay that money willingly. If they didn't he wouldn't get it.

ehh, you were doing alright up to this point.

Footballers wages are the victims of iterative process, it's the same with the top jobs in banks and business - there's an ever increasing spiral between the top firms to outbid each other in order to attract the best, and it's led to over inflation of the true worth of the position. It's a 'creep' in price that isn't specific to football. If I worked my bollocks off my whole life as an accountant the best I could hope for is maybe CEO of an international bank (£10m a year) by the age of 50 and I feel that paying someone £100m a year for any physical skill and sporting talent is just so, so wrong.

As for Ong, yes people living on benefits is a drain on the economy but it's not the biggest budgetary problem we have. IMO a bigger worry is that average lifespan is increasing faster than predicted and that retirement age is likely to go up again before I reach 65 (and even a second increase will not be enough to cover the massive pension deficit in this country).

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...-tax-r-001.jpg

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...udget-2014.xls

I'm not really sure what you want from ong here, rong. He's admitted that he's living off us taxpayers, and you've admitted that it's a fairly meagre existence. Is it that he got your back up by framing his unemployment around some 1980s style anti capitalist rhetoric? Because I'm just not that bothered about the dolie bums

[rong]

It was more the fair share comment that annoyed me. Bumming off the state is one thing but trying to justify it as anything but living off of everyone else's hard work is just plain wrong.

[OngBonga]

It was more the fair share comment that annoyed me. Bumming off the state is one thing but trying to justify it as anything but living off of everyone else's hard work is just plain wrong.

Well I was born into this shitting country and it's fucking system, so yes I hold the opinion that the nation owes me a meagre living. Next year I'll be voting for the Greens. I've never voted before, and while I briefly flirted with the idea of voting UKIP, I'm very likely to lean Greens, simply because they want to legalise all drugs, ban animal tesing, and give EVERYONE a living income, which would mean I don't have to bullshit a job search every two weeks, and it means you don't have to cry about my pissy survival because you too would get what I get, plus whatever you earn.

Don't blame me for the system sucking. Blame the powers that be.

[Luco]

It was more the fair share comment that annoyed me. Bumming off the state is one thing but trying to justify it as anything but living off of everyone else's hard work is just plain wrong.

Yeah I can see why the sense of entitlement might irk you. There was a period in my life where I had less disposable income doing full time work than my brother did signing on, and it was easy to feel a little disheartened with the system. Why work when I'd be financially better off just to go have 3 or 4 kids and sign on? It actually took a fair bit of life grind on my part to reverse that trend and I kinda agree with ong about the system, the jump from unemployment to employment works out at like £1/hr or something for a lot of people so there's not a huge incentive to give up 40 hours of your life to go and do it

But whatever, I chose to work and I'm happy with my choice. Ong you choose not to and that's also fine with me, more power to you bro.

[OngBonga]

I'm glad you're not bothered luco. Ofc it makes no difference if I work or not, dan's tax burden will remain unaffected by my employment status. But I understand why it pisses people off, I've had this argument with close friends. Not all of my friends are happy to see me lazing around while they go and work. But they seem to forget that they have wives, kids, cars, mortgages. That's what they're making the sacrifice for. I'd feel a lot differently about working if I had kids to support, and I'd very likely have very little interest in the political rantings of a layabout stoner. So I see where dan is coming from. But I'm certainly not going to apologise to anyone for my refusal to engage. I'm not doing anything wrong. I hate the way the world works, wish to play as little a role in it as possible, and as such I'm simply defaulting to the path of least resistance.

[Keith]

oooo so much to comment on

Why do I think it's reasonable for a civilised society to pay for me to survive? A few reasons really. First of all, I'm forced into this society. It's not like I can opt out.

really ? ever heard of suicide? Certainly you have a strange view of a civilised society.You want all of the benefits of a collective responsibility but to pass on the the obligations of a collective responsibility.You're just fucking selfish.

Also the idea that a civilised society leaves the unemployed to simply fend for themselves, well it kind of negates the idea that it's a civilised society in the first place.

And for you to continue to take unemployment with intending to look for and stick at a job and contibute towards other peoples welfare just means that you are not civilised.

What happens if benefits are cut? The welfare bill goes down, but at what cost? Yup, crime goes up massively, which in turn means the prison bill goes up. I can tell you it would cost a lot more to keep me in prison than it costs to keep me idle.

what a load of bollocks . crime would only go up as a result of bone idle scumbags preferring to steal from others because they lack morals rather than going out and finding a job.Its just an extension ogf what they are already doing by sitting on the dole year in year out swilling their cheap lager and getting stoned.

But mainly, the real reason why a civilised society has a moral obligation to pick up the tab is because we abolished slavery a century ago. When somebody HAS to go to work to survive, they are a slave. People only have a choice when that choice is viable... and if there's no income for the unemployed, then people do not have a choice. Of course we do have a choice, we're not slaves. But the powers that be try their very best to make us slaves.

did you even think about that ??? you say forcing you to take a job is slavery .....so instead you force everyone else to work so that you can sit on your arse all day...how is that not slavery. By your argument it should be stopped because we abolished slavery . therefore we shouldn't have to contribute towards your lifestyle and you should have the choice to find a job or starve.

They drum conformity into our heads from a young age. They sure like to press the idea that those who refuse to engage in the system are scroungers. Even you have the "why should I" attitude that the capitalist system breeds. But of course the real scroungers are the politicians who claim everything off the taxpayer, or the fatcat boss who plays golf while his employees work their asses off for him to be able to afford such a lifestyle. I'm not a scrounger for expecting £15 a day to avoid having to engage the system, beg or steal. The amount of money the taxpayer spends making sure the unemployed are not all homeless and hungry is insignificant when compared to the amount of money waste on other aspects of government.

lol @fat cat boss playing golf is stereo typical bullshit........many bosses in the private sector will put in many more hours than the employees do and the profits from their companies will keep you in lager and weed for years. To denigrate them for playing golf while you sit watching jereny kyle every day is laughable just to continue with the stereo type).The only part of your argument that has some merit is the politicians.......many of them are career politicians/lawyers/union officials and never done a days real work in their lives .There should be a requirement that people standin for parliament should have 20 years workplace experience before they can stand so that they have some idea how budgets are calculated and spent rather than the incompetents who can't hack it in the workforce and consequently make a complete balls up when running the country, leading to all the waste that you mention.

Basically Dan, I refuse to engage in the system because I fucking hate the system.

bollocks, you engage with the system every time you sign on and collect your payment

I'm fiercly anticapitalist and would rather rot away in my house sitting around getting stoned than to spend most of my adult life doing shit I don't want to do for some cunt I don't like for money I don't want.

lol at a stoner "fiercely" bit of a contradiction isnt it?How do you contribute back to society then Ong? . DO you do voluntary work visiting lonely pensioners (without nicking their weekly pension or savings) and giving them some company, or helping at a hospice so that the terminally ill can have some extra help in their last days. DO you help with after school clubs or youth centres to give kids an outlet or interest rather than loitering around the streets and getting into gangs/violence/a life of crime. None of these things are helping some fatcat or furthering capitalism but they all put something back into a civilised society. but like the lazy cunt you are you just want to sit at home getting stoned all day.
------------------------------------------

Pests and moulds are still a problem because spraying your plants with shit is not a good idea. Not when people are gonna be smoking that shit.

interesting link http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/abou...s-cause-cancer

The substances in cannabis smoke

Cannabis smoke contains many of the same cancer causing substances (carcinogens) as tobacco - at least 50 of them. In addition, cannabis is often mixed with tobacco when smoked.
One of these carcinogens is benzyprene. Benzyprene is in the tar of both tobacco and cannabis cigarettes. We know that benzyprene causes cancer. It alters a gene called p53, which is a tumour suppressor gene. We know that 3 out of 4 lung cancers (75%) occur in people who have faulty p53 genes. The p53 gene is also linked to many other cancers.
Cannabis also contains a substance called THC (tetrahydrocannabinol). It is the THC in the cannabis that changes your mood and behaviour. The amount of THC in a cannabis cigarette varies considerably. Researchers have shown that THC causes benzpyrene to promote the p53 gene to change. But other researchers have looked at the effects of pure THC on brain tumour cells and found that it killed them in laboratory tests. This is a long way from using it as a treatment. But you can see from this that the evidence on cannabis causing cancer is confusing.
The way people smoke cannabis

People inhale cannabis smoke for longer than cigarette smoke. This is to get the full effect of the cannabis. But it means that the smoke is in contact with the lungs for longer.

so you are taking 50 + known carcinogens into your body when you smoke the weed and now you are getting all fussy because of insectides and pesticides being used on the plants with no carcinogenic properties attributed to those chemicals( cos they get banned and withdrawn from use if that is discovered)

All you're doing here is demonstrating why it's harder than people realise. The top companies who are driving the prices down are going to be a problem, yes. But they will not be able to drive the prices down to the point it is unviable for me to do it at home, because a home crop that has constant attention will nearly always provide a better quality crop than a large scale industrial crop.

lol yeah ....cloud cuckoo land .....ever heard of cost efficiencies from scale of production. the pests and mould problems are a side effect of the plant density that you are forced to crop in with illegal " gardens". insecticides and fungicides that you would have access to are probably £10 per 500ml at B&Q or a garden centre , agriculture is typically paying £10 per 25l of the same chemical. that is the kind of disparity in pricing that you would be facing.If its legal, companies would be growing weed in india/africa/south america or other similar countries where land is cheap, labour is cheap , drying costs are negligible climate is favourable and delivery costs round the world are minute as a container would be loaded on a ship. Compared to this you have minimal space to grow your crop (a cellar), you have no daylight (since in cellar) so big electric cost for lights,same thing goes for heating , cold climate and you need to get the temperature (another big cost) up to speed up growth but this then leads to the pest and fungal problems since you have the plants crowded together. Your heating and light costs are going to dwarf the costs that commercial crops will be grown for and you will not be able to compete.

Basically, I'm in no doubt I could find buyers for my weed, if I were to grow again. People want quality smoke, and that doesn't grow like the weeds you find in the garden.

the commercial crop wouldn't be grown like the weeds in our garden , your efforts would look amateurish in comparison.Oh ....just pointing out another slip up with the word "again"

Oh and when you say year round, it gives the impression you think that my smoke is grown in the great outdoors, with beautiful rays of sunlight. Not so. I'll have a year round crop growing in the fucking tropics of a Midlands cellar.

As i showed above .....that is the high cost of production route leading to expensive weed, the commercial crop will drive those costs through the floor and people will have to be stoned to buy your shit rather than the commercially grown stuff.

I refuse to engage the system because I hate the system. If I go to work, I'm paying tax, which in turn pays for us to bomb the shit out of whoever, and send money to greedy cunts in Europe whose sole mission it is to destroy democracy across the continent.

You think I'm just idle. I'm not. I'm just refusing to play their game.

lol at destroying democracy from the guy who admits to never having voted......presumably because he's too fucking lazy to walk to the nearest voting station when he could be watching jeremy kyle instead.

I don't blame the system for my current life. Tha's where you're jumping to the wrong conclusion You seem to get the impression I'm unahppy with my life. I'm very happy. It's other people who assume I shouldn't be happy.

I don't "take advantage" of the system. You yourself acknowledge that £500 is a miserable existence. I would not call that "taking advantage", I think those who take advantage are taking MORE than their fair share. People who fuck others over so they can earn more money, they're the ones taking advantage of the system. I'm merely surviving. What do you suggest I do?

erm some options
1/ get a fucking job that satisfies your criteria
2/ do some voluntary work
3/ visit the elderly/disabled
4/ get some qualifications

note how none of the above involve sitting around getting stoned.

Oh my god you're right, I'm a terrible person. I'm a thief and a liar. I should go to prison.

Dan I have two choices - work, or sign on. There are other options, like find a hippie commune, or die, whatever. But, there's two viable options. I choose to sign on because working makes me very unhappy. You can try to paint me as a bad guy for sponging off the average citizen, but the fact is I have no problem accepting a meagre survival off the taxpayer. I had no problem with the unemployed when I was working, and if I work again in the future I won't have a problem with them. That's because I understand that not everyone is employable, not everyone wants to engage in the system, and that people most certainly should not be forced to.

like i said before , if you don't want to engage , don't sign on .if you sign on put something back into society.

I am not a bad person for satnding my ground on this issue. If I were pretending to be ill so I could claim sick benefits instead, well than you might have a point. But I'm not. So you can shove your guilt trip up your arse.

so theres something wrong with saying that those claiming to be ill to get the sickness payments are scum of the earth for lying , but theres nothing wrong with you claiming to be looking for work when you have no intention of working so that you can get your dole money?. hypocrit or what?

[rong]

This bit is a really good point, that isn't too critical of you and your lifestyle in it's essence.

How do you contribute back to society then Ong? . DO you do voluntary work visiting lonely pensioners and giving them some company, or helping at a hospice so that the terminally ill can have some extra help in their last days. DO you help with after school clubs or youth centres to give kids an outlet or interest rather than loitering around the streets and getting into gangs/violence/a life of crime. None of these things are helping some fatcat or furthering capitalism but they all put something back into a civilised society.

[OngBonga]

tl;dr

I'm a busy man keith, I haven't the time to read all that. All I'll say is you're wrong and I'm right.

[OngBonga]

Oh ffs I saw this...

You're just fucking selfish.

I don't particularly consider this an insult. Give me one good reason why I shouldn't be selfish.

really ? ever heard of suicide?

Wait, what? You're suggesting suicide is a viable option? Fucking hell keith, a bit strong. I realise I won that game of ww and you're pissed, but encouraging me to top myself is heavy shit.

keith, suicide is not an option. Suggesting otherwise is really short sighted. I mean are you saying that you'd rather me top myself than claim benefits? And you dare to call me selfish? Fuck me.

And for you to continue to take unemployment with intending to look for and stick at a job and contibute towards other peoples welfare just means that you are not civilised.

No keith, you're just making shit up here. I can say you're not civlised for not wearing a top hat. And I have about as much ground to stand on as you do. Working / no working is not what determines if someone is civilised. I'm civilised because I don't do bad things, I'm polite, especially to women and old folk. If you disagree, well our definitions of the word "civilised" differs, and you suggesting I'm not fitting your definition of civilised, well again forgive me for not being insulted.

what a load of bollocks . crime would only go up as a result of bone idle scumbags preferring to steal from others because they lack morals rather than going out and finding a job.Its just an extension ogf what they are already doing by sitting on the dole year in year out swilling their cheap lager and getting stoned.

Yeah you're half right here. But how many people are on the dole? How many vacant jobs are there at any given time? Do you actually believe that everyone on the dole can just get work at the drop of a hat? You're fucking kidding yourself. You think I'm bone idle? You clearly haven't spent more than a few minutes at your local jobcentre. The majority of those claiming benefits are even more idle than I am, and lack the morals that stop me from stealing. So you're right, crime would go up for the reasons you state. This is one reason why it's necessary to have unemployment benefits. Because a lot of people will steal rather than work, if forced to do one or the other. I'd sooner work, but if you consider claiming benefits to be stealing, then again our different definitions take us to different places.

God this post of yours is huge, I'll read more later.

[OngBonga]

did you even think about that ??? you say forcing you to take a job is slavery .....so instead you force everyone else to work so that you can sit on your arse all day...how is that not slavery. By your argument it should be stopped because we abolished slavery . therefore we shouldn't have to contribute towards your lifestyle and you should have the choice to find a job or starve.

keith logic. It's only one step up from ong logic. I'm not forcing anyone to work. Saying I am is like me saying you're forcing me to type words right now.

When my options are to a) work, b) starve, then yes, working is slavery. If those are the only two options I have, then I work. But they're not the only two options I have. Fortunately I'm not a slave.

lol @fat cat boss playing golf is stereo typical bullshit

I'm not even sure what your point is. So I'm generalising. The point is, bosses tend to treat their employees like shit. But ofc if it wasn't for the employees, boss wouldn't have a fucking job himself. Boss should show employees more fucking respect.

bollocks, you engage with the system every time you sign on and collect your payment

Fair enough. But I don't see any other viable options. Emphasis on viable before you make more crazy suggestions, like joining a circus maybe. It's either work or claim benefits. Claiming is at least taking from the system instead of giving. It's not even a selfishness thing here. I'd be happy to give to the system if I felt the system was fair and honest. But it's not. So fuck the system. I'd love to withdraw entirely from the system, but how do I pay my rent and buy food?

lol at a stoner "fiercely" bit of a contradiction isnt it?How do you contribute back to society then Ong? . DO you do voluntary work visiting lonely pensioners (without nicking their weekly pension or savings) and giving them some company, or helping at a hospice so that the terminally ill can have some extra help in their last days. DO you help with after school clubs or youth centres to give kids an outlet or interest rather than loitering around the streets and getting into gangs/violence/a life of crime. None of these things are helping some fatcat or furthering capitalism but they all put something back into a civilised society. but like the lazy cunt you are you just want to sit at home getting stoned all day.

I've actually considered charity work, and it might still be something I do. It's not as simple as just going and doing it. For some faggot ass reason, the benefits system frowns upon it, so if I go and work, even for no money, then it compromises my benefits. Go figure.

Also, "lazy cunt" is not something that I find insulting either. You're gonna have to try harder if you're trying to piss me off.

so you are taking 50 + known carcinogens into your body when you smoke the weed and now you are getting all fussy because of insectides and pesticides being used on the plants with no carcinogenic properties attributed to those chemicals( cos they get banned and withdrawn from use if that is discovered)

Are you fucking serious? That's like saying you should happily eat a radioactive chocolate bar because chocolate is bad for you. Fucking hell keith you're really reaching hard here. Furthermore, spraying shit onto cannabis plants affects the taste, and therefore the quality. The fungicides when smoked are a lot fucking worse than the cannabis itself, because they're not designed for smoking, and people don't tend to wash their weed before smoking it. It's not like a tomato. When it comes to the risk associated with cannabis, that's a risk that people are willing to take, for the same reason people take risks when it comes to alchol. People like to get wasted. Just because cannabis isn't good for you, does not mean that makes it ok to spray it to high hell with whatever shit you like. You're talking crazy here keith.

the commercial crop wouldn't be grown like the weeds in our garden , your efforts would look amateurish in comparison.Oh ....just pointing out another slip up with the word "again"

You are wrong. They might make more money than me because they'd go large scale, but when it comes to quality, mine would be superior because mine would get the close attention the plants need to thrive. You're a farmer aren't you keith? Do you really think that an industrial crop can match the quality of a home crop? Whose tomatoes are going to be better? Nan's from the greenhouse? Or Tesco Value tomatoes?

lol yeah ....cloud cuckoo land .....

Let's entertain you for a minute and say you're right, that I couldn't compete with international companies. Hooray cheap as fuck weed. It's win-win for me either way.

lol at destroying democracy from the guy who admits to never having voted......presumably because he's too fucking lazy to walk to the nearest voting station when he could be watching jeremy kyle instead.

Check you out jumping to the wrong conclusion. I've never voted because I despise British mainstream politics. I've never been particularly political through my younger years, so didn't really bother to find out what the Greens were all about. So I was left facing a choice between dog shit and cat shit, because that's basically the two options we have when it's Lab/Tory. I'm not voting for either of those. Next year I will vote, because I found a party that suits my ideals. And when we finally get an EU referendum, I'll be voting then too, make no mistake.

But please keith, don't be one of those stupid people who thinks that apathy = undemocratic. There's actually quite a few people who have for a long time been very much disillusioned with the political system in this country. That's how apathy creeps in. Some people are just plain lazy and don't care, but the majority of non-voters usually have a legitimate reason. And you have no right to judge them for that reason, no right whatsoever. It's no better than me saying you're a terrible human for voting Tory/Labour.

erm some options
1/ get a fucking job that satisfies your criteria
2/ do some voluntary work
3/ visit the elderly/disabled
4/ get some qualifications

note how none of the above involve sitting around getting stoned.

Here you're really letting me know what your problem is. It's not that I don't want to play the game. It's that I'm enjoying my time rather than being more miserable than those who are working. You have a problem with me getting stoned while you're farming. I get that. But remember you called me fucking selfish? You're no better if you expect me to work at some shitty job to make you feel happier about paying tax.

so theres something wrong with saying that those claiming to be ill to get the sickness payments are scum of the earth for lying , but theres nothing wrong with you claiming to be looking for work when you have no intention of working so that you can get your dole money?. hypocrit or what?

It's a matter of options. If I say I don't want to work, then do I get benefit? I don't know, I don't really want to test the water in that respect. But there's a big difference in pretending to look for work and pretending to be sick. The latter gets me more money, so not only is it lying in order to survive, but it's acting fraudulently in order to get more money. I actually have a moral problem with that. I don't have a moral problem with pretending to find work because they don't exactly give me any option in that respect.

Whew that was fun.

[OngBonga]

Oh and for someone who didn't like me stereotyping, I'd like to point out that I don't drink beer, and I despise Jeremy Kyle. I drink tea while watching lectures on particle phsyics, I'm not your average layabout dole scum.

[Luco]

Oh and for someone who didn't like me stereotyping, I'd like to point out that I don't drink beer, and I despise Jeremy Kyle. I drink tea while watching lectures on particle phsyics, I'm not your average layabout dole scum.

I think the worst thing about jeremy kyle is that I get into it quite quickly. Like, these people are bottom of the barrel and the show is bollocks but goddamn I need to know those lie detector results!