Poker Tracker, Aggression Factor

[moiraine57]

Quick Question about Poker Tracker....Just bought it, have 2500 hands (not alot) under my belt....

I have a question about the aggression factor rating. It says less than .70 = passive and greater than 1.5 = aggro.

I know 2500 hands isn't a lot, but I have been playing my normal game...and I have flop and turn aggro factors of 3.14 and 3.45 respectively and a river aggro factor of 4.39....

Is this a little too high? If 1.5 is aggressive, and I am 2-3x what qualifies as aggressive, could this be a leak? Or is poker tracker wrong with what it considers aggro?

I don't think I'm over-aggro, just playing my game...but looking at my stats tonight, I found that i was questioning that a bit.

[biondino]

I am roughly the same (flop-river are all between 3 and 3.8). Certainly my game isn't going anywhere at the moment and if this is a problem, I'm very keen to fix it.

I suspect the answer may be that playing$25NL and similar, aggression too often leads to showdowns with calling stations who river bottom pair. That's one of the reason I'm on such a bad run, anyway.

If you're playing low stakes, this is fine, because tight / very very aggressive is the way to go.

Through my first 3000 hands of $25 NL, my flop AF is 8.90, my turn AF is 3.78, and my river AF is 5.29, for a total AF of 6.35. That's just because I'm camping and playing my big hands very very aggressively, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a high AF in low stakes games.

[CrunchyNuts]

PT's numbers are aimed at limit play, I believe. It was about a month ago, but I think I got some better presets from www.bet-the-pot.com in their PT articles.

[a500lbgorilla]

I know 2500 hands isn't a lot, but I have been playing my normal game...and I have flop and turn aggro factors of 3.14 and 3.45 respectively and a river aggro factor of 4.39....

Your stats are basically mine backwards.

-'rilla

[johnson8000]

thanks crunchy, i just purchased pokertracker two days ago and what a program. I'm having problems with the auto-rating feature. I have the rating of a mouse - i'm tight/passive and apparently that is a weak strategy.

I've just put in 700 hands from titanpoker, which i've just joined and my aggression rating is - flop 3.2/turn 0.7 and river 0.83 overall.. 1.70. Yet, on the auto rating feature you need plus 3 to be classed as aggressive. So, my post flop play is weak/passive which i don't think is very accurate. I'm playing NL!!

Plus, they say a good player will have a BB/100 of 4 and mind is 18 so i can't be that passive -) i'll check out that link. Still, i've found a slight leak in my game, on the turn, i'm probably not defending to draws very well - flushes and straight. So, i'll start betting out more on the turn from now on.

I think an aggression rating of 4.0 is a bet excessive, especially if your being over aggressive with mediocre hands and ur building the pot up too high and losing the showdown. I'm usually play quite passive and call down a top pair - but it depends on the player - if a player calls my continuation bet )

Interesting program -) ahah i found my passive rating lost me quite a few hands. When i wanted to up my aggresssion level and got busted by playing a top pair with kicker too aggressively. Betting alot, on turn and river when i was unsure about where i was.

[johnson8000]

ahh old topic, opps...

[johnson8000]

got, jsut incase anyone is interested and doesn't know the proper NL stats for aggression.

DriveTT uses the following:
AF-T < 2.00 = Passive
AF-T 2.00-3.00 = Neutral
AF-T > 3.00 = Aggressive

I think this is WAY too aggressive. My stats show that only 10% or so of players would be considered aggressive. Too far skewed to one side.

The PokerTrackerGuide guys use these:
AF-T < 1.00 Passive
AF-T 1.01-1.49 Neutral
AF-T > 1.50 Aggressive

excession's rules look more like this:
AF-T < 1.30 Passive
AF-T 1.30-1.80 Neutral
AF-T > 1.80 Aggressive

bisonbison's rules I think are:
AF-T <1.50 Passive
AF-T >1.50 Aggressive

Thanks to tiburon

[cardsman1992]

Don't confuse the AFs. When PT makes the statement regarding .7 vs 1.5, remember that they are including preflop in this number. To add that, under the "general" tab when you click More Detail, you will see a box toward the top left corner that says "include Preflop numbers in aggression factor". When you check that box, look at your AF. You will notice that it drops, and you can see how you compare to that statement.

The auto rate rules never calculate PF aggresion, so your HUD only goes off of postflop numbers for your opps.

[johnson8000]

Ok, thanks cardsman

Yah, including pre flop.. i'm down at 0.62.

Its interesting - i've only been playing four months and at very low limits. Well, i was playing on Party at 02/04 and went from $20 to $130 in three months at those blinds.

Just moved to titanpoker and moved upto 05/10 and i've gone from £20 to $45 in 720hands with a BB/100 of 18. I would like to try out 25/50 but feel against better players i'm too passive, well, this is where i'm unsure about my game.

I'm currently at AF flop 3.55/turn 60/river 83/ total 1.85. For 05/10.

I'm just wondering, how to play top pair correctly on the flop, which i guess isn't that marginal. Say for e.g i have A, Q and i raise $50 and get one caller $50 and the flop comes down Q, 10, 2 different suits.

What would be the better way of playing it for value? if he made a half bet at it and i was on button. Usually, i'd just call and play passive to river. Yet, going by tight/aggressive.. the best play would be to re raise thinking ive got the best hand. Hmmm interesting ahahh. Any advice on this? What if u raise and he calls? and he bets again on turn - you re raise him again? jesus, i'm a conservative kind of guy. Any advice from some better players. Well, if i did reraise and he called - depending on his style - i'm be reluctant to push again. Also, i take it a 3x raise is about right?

Also, i've been reading ppl saying its advantageous to bet your flush, straight draws to take down pot on the flop. ahah I've read some dan harrington and he's seems to edge towards safety and check alot more - which i usually do.

I'll probably stick with what i'm doing atm As my BB/100 hands is quite healthy at 18. Always, looking to improve though, as i'd like to be playing 25/50 in 6months time, to try and earn some extra cash.

Sorry, its off topic. I'm just lost on a few things atm. Everyone is saying passive = loser and aggressive = the way forward and i seem to be quite passive.

[sarbox68]

My 2 cents for what it's worth (probably 2 cents...)

Just switched to NL from Limit and have about 12K hands in on .02/.04. My PF agression number has dropped from what I'm used to because I'm limping more hands in mid/late position with connectors, suited and low pp in order to see the flop for cheap. If they hit great, if not, it was ideally only the cost of the blind.

My total agression number is higher than what I had at limit because I'm betting out much harder when my hands hit either for value or to knock out other drawing hands.

So, I'm not sure more passive PF is a bad thing depending on 1) where and why you're being passive/limping in and 2) post-flop play.

[Chopper]

first thing: your sample sizes are WAY too small. all of you. you need over 5k (absolute min) and preferably over 15k to get any idea of how you actually play.

second thing: how can you think you arent passive just because you win rate is 18...over 700 hands? wtf? i've seen call-stations run over 20 for a couple hundred hands when they are on heaters. AF has little to do with win rate, period.

thirdly: johnson, you say "defend a draw?" how do you do that, you arent ahead in the hand. you dont want to defend anything here. you would only bet out on the turn to "trick" your opponent into thinking you are NOT on a draw, so when it hits, you get paid. otherwise, you are not "defending," you are BLUFFING.

fourth: at low stakes, like you guys are referring to, TP is NOT a value hand. it is a strong hand, but with everybody calling down here, you need to protect it and bump others out of the pot...this is where your AF should soar. you dont bet TP for value on the flop, you should be trying to win it right there with large bets...not small ones. you dont want to price in draws, etc. and you need to know when you are beat...small bets that get raised dont tell you anything...they look weak. large bets that get raised will tell you more, imo. however, TP on a dry board, at the river, is a hand to value bet...but dont get crazy with "betting for value." you are playing microstakes. just bet hard, and get paid off.

fifth: betting/semibluffing your draws on the flop IS advantageous (see third point again). but harrington is talking about 10k buy-in tourneys, too. not 10 NL ring games. he is playing a much more sophisticated opponent for the most part, and needs to think on different levels. as said, just bet your hands when you hit them. maybe if you are playing a villain who constantly takes away your pot odds to draw, you may bet first to "block" him, but you wouldnt see that too often at 10 and 25 NL anyway.

finally, you are putting WAY too much stock in PT "stats." they are to be used as a generic guide. yes, it is a very valuable tool, and i would be lost w/o it, but it is just a tool. dont think you need to bet/raise more if you have an AF of 1.49, and dont think you need to cool it if your AF is 1.52.

is 4 too high? depends on how you're using your aggression. is being too passive a loser (most times yes)? i dont know, are you playing only with maniacs on your right?

lots of things will affect your AF, etc. dont put ANY stock in any of it until you get over 10k hands, and even then, use it as a benchmark. dont go making fundamental changes in your game because you read and article (or thread... ) about what your numbers should be. if you are winning money, concentrate on THAT. you may have a style that works very well....for you.

[Heassycypesia]

xxxxx