2NL B-B-B-C Line When Spiked River

Bet sizing tends to be on the small side a lot. Turn bet doesn't really accomplish much and us a better card for him than you. Id x turn and river, never betting river as played.

Originally Posted by Savy

Bet sizing tends to be on the small side a lot. Turn bet doesn't really accomplish much and us a better card for him than you. Id x turn and river, never betting river as played.

That's what I was thinking here. Simply check down on that turn and river board after villain calls your flop cbet.

Originally Posted by Savy

Bet sizing tends to be on the small side a lot. Turn bet doesn't really accomplish much and us a better card for him than you. Id x turn and river, never betting river as played.

Because it was a blind steal attempt and I got called, plus only had an over to board, I decided to double barrel at that moment. Therefore, since all I had currently was the lead, keeping the flop bet lower at half pot, would make my turn CB cheaper, yet hopefully still effective. 1/2 pot is an average CB I believe, so I don't understand why you think all my bets are small.

I see that you think my river check was ok. Even though I hit, he called the whole way, and I have is TPWK.

Originally Posted by Mcash2

Because it was a blind steal attempt and I got called, plus only had an over to board, I decided to double barrel at that moment. Therefore, since all I had currently was the lead, keeping the flop bet lower at half pot, would make my turn CB cheaper, yet hopefully still effective. 1/2 pot is an average CB I believe, so I don't understand why you think all my bets are small.

I see that you think my river check was ok. Even though I hit, he called the whole way, and I have is TPWK.

I'm probably wrong about the river, betting small is probably good as has been said.

Originally Posted by Mcash2

Because it was a blind steal attempt and I got called

Then why are you betting a whiffed flop?


You had a plan. A profitable plan.
Why you changed your plan:

Originally Posted by Mcash2

(I got called), plus only had an over to board, I decided to double barrel at that moment.

This logic is perfectly flawed. Villain isn't mentioned once in there.

The cards are primarily a distraction for the fish. Poker isn't really a card game. It's a game of psychological warfare. Online poker relies heavily on the soul-crushing power of mathematics to accomplish this goal.

It's not about beating the cards.
It's about beating the villains.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Then why are you betting a whiffed flop?


You had a plan. A profitable plan.
Why you changed your plan:


This logic is perfectly flawed. Villain isn't mentioned once in there.

The cards are primarily a distraction for the fish. Poker isn't really a card game. It's a game of psychological warfare. Online poker relies heavily on the soul-crushing power of mathematics to accomplish this goal.

It's not about beating the cards.
It's about beating the villains.

To say that I planned a Turn action based on my PF action, at the flop, definitely is flawed, and must be remedied. Why I post I guess, to uncover these leaks. But as opponent would miss flop 2/3rd of time, a CB is justified I think majority of time, even though it was initially a steal attempt. Right?

But their holdings (cards) drive the psychology. Card drive situational mathematics. Right? If I look down at AA PF, you can think to Freud all you want. I ain't folding to your antics. I can see in most cases where both parties are unsure, because of incomplete info, but even there my cards have some bear at least as much as what I think he thinks I have.

Originally Posted by Mcash2

To say that I planned a Turn action based on my PF action, at the flop, definitely is flawed, and must be remedied. Why I post I guess, to uncover these leaks.

It's all good. I'm usually more verbose and less ... confrontational.
Thanks for taking it in stride.

Originally Posted by Mcash2

But as opponent would miss flop 2/3rd of time, a CB is justified I think majority of time, even though it was initially a steal attempt. Right?

Now you're thinking about Villain, so much better reasons to bet OTF.

Not bad.

It's always best to assign a range to Villain, and to see what your bet does to that range, and calculate the value of that bet.

Originally Posted by Mcash2

But their holdings (cards) drive the psychology. Card drive situational mathematics. Right? If I look down at AA PF, you can think to Freud all you want. I ain't folding to your antics. I can see in most cases where both parties are unsure, because of incomplete info, but even there my cards have some bear at least as much as what I think he thinks I have.

The case where you're never folding AA is a fine example. Is it the only hand in that range which you are never folding? If not, then what's the other pockets in that range? Does opponent know them? Have you ever taken this line with a "bad" hand... and shown the villain what you did? (I'm not suggesting this is always a good play. 99.9% of the time, it's burning monies, but that 0.1% of the time... wowee... that guy might never fold to your AA pre-flop ever again.)

That's the game. You may have stepped outside of your A-game one time, but it created a lasting memory in a specific villain. You intentionally did it to mess with them, for reasons you determined were apt, and applied to this person specifically. I can't stress enough that this is the true game of poker. The cards are there to distract the fish from the actual game the sharks are playing.


It's a game of much more than math, but math can get you to be a winning player against players who don't understand the math. However, when playing against players who DO understand the math (which is the norm when grinding out a living wage and above), then it's not enough to beat them. You can only tie them if you both play mathematically perfect poker. The game is to find a way to deviate which costs you less than it earns you... I.e. to trick your opponent into doing a bad play that they know is bad, but they've convinced themselves that it's not bad against YOU in this spot. You see?

***
OK.... back to the topic at hand.

As a beginner, you need to learn the math and you need to trust the math to guide your decisions.
However, you need to also not get lost in the numbers and think this is a game about your cards and the cards on the table.
It's definitely not. Only heartache is down that road.
It's a game of outplaying your opponent. It's a game where everything you do is motivated by your opponents and your position relative to them. It's a game in which you slowly cultivate a false image of your strategy in your opponents' minds and capitalize on the false image you've presented.

The numbers can only prevent you from being a bad player, but they can't make you great.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

It's all good. I'm usually more verbose and less ... confrontational.
Thanks for taking it in stride.


Now you're thinking about Villain, so much better reasons to bet OTF.

Not bad.

It's always best to assign a range to Villain, and to see what your bet does to that range, and calculate the value of that bet.


The case where you're never folding AA is a fine example. Is it the only hand in that range which you are never folding? If not, then what's the other pockets in that range? Does opponent know them? Have you ever taken this line with a "bad" hand... and shown the villain what you did? (I'm not suggesting this is always a good play. 99.9% of the time, it's burning monies, but that 0.1% of the time... wowee... that guy might never fold to your AA pre-flop ever again.)

That's the game. You may have stepped outside of your A-game one time, but it created a lasting memory in a specific villain. You intentionally did it to mess with them, for reasons you determined were apt, and applied to this person specifically. I can't stress enough that this is the true game of poker. The cards are there to distract the fish from the actual game the sharks are playing.


It's a game of much more than math, but math can get you to be a winning player against players who don't understand the math. However, when playing against players who DO understand the math (which is the norm when grinding out a living wage and above), then it's not enough to beat them. You can only tie them if you both play mathematically perfect poker. The game is to find a way to deviate which costs you less than it earns you... I.e. to trick your opponent into doing a bad play that they know is bad, but they've convinced themselves that it's not bad against YOU in this spot. You see?

***
OK.... back to the topic at hand.

As a beginner, you need to learn the math and you need to trust the math to guide your decisions.
However, you need to also not get lost in the numbers and think this is a game about your cards and the cards on the table.
It's definitely not. Only heartache is down that road.
It's a game of outplaying your opponent. It's a game where everything you do is motivated by your opponents and your position relative to them. It's a game in which you slowly cultivate a false image of your strategy in your opponents' minds and capitalize on the false image you've presented.

The numbers can only prevent you from being a bad player, but they can't make you great.

Good stuff. All of it. I take it to heart. I am a sucker for structure though. Can I get you to give me a list of what math to study and in what order you think I would benefit the bet from studying poker math.