2NL B-B-B-C Line When Spiked River

CB-wise, is it ok to size smaller flop bets so turn bet is cheaper? Hey I'm thinking ahead.

Originally Posted by Mcash2

CB-wise, is it ok to size smaller flop bets so turn bet is cheaper? Hey I'm thinking ahead.

Thinking about SPR is important yes but when you don't want to be betting the turn on like every possible card that can come out caring about your turn bet size is fairly unimportant.

The reason you can c-bet a tonne at low microstakes is because people fold far too to c-bets so you can bet just about anything and make money in a vacuum. When people do call they become much less likely to fold period. I imagine when you look at hands where you have c-bet flop villains fold % will be much higher than villains fold % on the turn when you have c-bet the flop and turn.

It's kind of the same reason that betting the river is probably good, villains tend to be passive and won't really play back at you & won't want to be letting go of basically any made hand.

Originally Posted by Savy

Thinking about SPR is important yes but when you don't want to be betting the turn on like every possible card that can come out caring about your turn bet size is fairly unimportant.

The reason you can c-bet a tonne at low microstakes is because people fold far too to c-bets so you can bet just about anything and make money in a vacuum. When people do call they become much less likely to fold period. I imagine when you look at hands where you have c-bet flop villains fold % will be much higher than villains fold % on the turn when you have c-bet the flop and turn.

It's kind of the same reason that betting the river is probably good, villains tend to be passive and won't really play back at you & won't want to be letting go of basically any made hand.

Cbetting is evolving rapidly again at this very moment. On the network he's playing on (WPN), people are not folding to cbet too much anymore and they are paying attention to exactly what boards you bet what sizing on when it comes to the flop. I was (but fixed it) getting check raised and jammed on the turn after they just called the flop cbet and raised the turn.

On BetOnline, I can cbet 80%-100% profitably. On WPN, I'm down to about 60% tops. All the regs are cbetting and folding to cbet in the 50-65% range. It's extremely difficult but it's the best micros training we can get anywhere.

Originally Posted by BigSlickBaby

Cbetting is evolving rapidly again at this very moment. On the network he's playing on (WPN), people are not folding to cbet too much anymore and they are paying attention to exactly what boards you bet what sizing on when it comes to the flop. I was (but fixed it) getting check raised and jammed on the turn after they just called the flop cbet and raised the turn.

On BetOnline, I can cbet 80%-100% profitably. On WPN, I'm down to about 60% tops. All the regs are cbetting and folding to cbet in the 50-65% range. It's extremely difficult but it's the best micros training we can get anywhere.

You play 2nl on an american site, it's just not true. If it is you should stop playing poker because it will be impossible to build a bankroll.

Originally Posted by Savy

You play 2nl on an american site, it's just not true. If it is you should stop playing poker because it will be impossible to build a bankroll.

Really, man ...I'm sorry but in this case you don't know what you're talking about. The mere fact that you said "you play 2nl on an American site" proves that. Right, and you don't play anything on any site right now let alone 2NL on WPN. What applied to you 4 years ago on a soft rec site doesn't apply to us in this case. Impossible to build a bankroll? Yes - On WPN, it is just about impossible to start with a $50 deposit and build a roll via cash games. It takes a *ton* of work. A lot of people who play 25NL+ on other networks simply can't get past 5NL on WPN. It's a totally different animal and you sometimes make extremely bold statements without having the personal experience to back them up. That's exactly what you're doing in this case. If you go start a 2NL bankroll challenge and cbet 80%+ of the time (which I guess is what you would do. That's all I can imagine "it's just not true" to mean since you didn't specify it yourself) with the rake structure the way it is, you're 100% correct. It would be impossible to build a roll. That's what the overwhelming majority of players are contending with in the micros on that network.

If you take a solid, winning player at say 3 bb/100 on WPN @ 5NL, he could easily handle 25NL on Ignition and BetOnline. Any 25NL+ US player could vouch for this fully.

Originally Posted by BigSlickBaby

Really, man ...I'm sorry but in this case you don't know what you're talking about. The mere fact that you said "you play 2nl on an American site" proves that. Right, and you don't play anything on any site right now let alone 2NL on WPN. What applied to you 4 years ago on a soft rec site doesn't apply to us in this case. Impossible to build a bankroll? Yes - On WPN, it is just about impossible to start with a $50 deposit and build a roll via cash games. It takes a *ton* of work. A lot of people who play 25NL+ on other networks simply can't get past 5NL on WPN. It's a totally different animal and you sometimes make extremely bold statements without having the personal experience to back them up. That's exactly what you're doing in this case. If you go start a 2NL bankroll challenge and cbet 80%+ of the time (which I guess is what you would do. That's all I can imagine "it's just not true" to mean since you didn't specify it yourself) with the rake structure the way it is, you're 100% correct. It would be impossible to build a roll. That's what the overwhelming majority of players are contending with in the micros on that network.

If you take a solid, winning player at say 3 bb/100 on WPN @ 5NL, he could easily handle 25NL on Ignition and BetOnline. Any 25NL+ US player could vouch for this fully.

I've never played on soft sites and the times I have played was on mostly on zoom at pokerstars in 2014/5 when the games will have been much harder than whatever it is you're playing. I'm not saying that it's not harder I'm saying it'll still be soft. That difference may be enough to make you a losing player but it doesn't mean that the games are hard, just harder.

The only reason it's relevant that it's a US site is because they basically couldn't play poker for a length of time, all the players making enough money (and hence being good) left to places they could play poker. I'm not saying there aren't harder US sites just that in general they are worse. WPN isn't some special case where the micro games are the hardest in the world.

I know the games aren't that hard because I see people posting hands at those levels doing awful retarded shit that is really easy to make money from. You're just not at a level where you can do this. I 100% agree that games get more difficult over time (generally) I could even accept that WPN is harder than 2nl on any other site 2 years ago but those games were crushable as are the ones you are playing on. Unless there is some retarded rake structure that means no can possibly win.

The correct course of action is to never play another hand on WPN ever again because it's a complete waste of your time, you can learn the exact same from playing higher stakes on other sites where you make more money and can build a roll faster and be giving away less of your money to the site you play on.

Originally Posted by BigSlickBaby

Look, Savvy certainly means well and I definitely don't mind his cynical nature. I'm the same way, myself. I think he's a little too negative for his own (or other's) benefit sometimes.

The point of this forum is to learn, I come across as negative because I spend most of my time correcting and arguing (for others benefits much more than mine I'm never going to put time into playing poker again) and don't care enough to phrase it all nicely for people. This would be better in general I agree.

I am very much of the opinion that if you don't like the advice just ignore it.