BVB: Flop pair, arse-end gutter and backdoor flush draw

Is this a good hand to chk/call on the flop or do we c/f? Does the rest of the hand play itself?

Villain is solid, semi-LAG reg capable of putting hero in some tough spots.

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

Button ($50)
Hero (SB) ($51.28)
BB ($81.07)
UTG ($55.27)
MP ($41.78)
CO ($11.63)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 8
4 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3) J, 9, 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($7) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5, Hero calls $5

River: ($17) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $11.25, Hero raises to $42.78 (All-In)

When you c/c as the PFR on J98 rainbow, you just need to make sure the hands you put in that range are benefiting the range.

For example, most people have some kind of pair + ten nearly every time they check call this flop. This covers their range on 7/Q rivers, but otherwise IP can just triple on every other runout. So you need to cover when the board completely blanks off by also check calling with AJ/J8/98/QQ. These are pretty strong hands that don't want to get all in but can comfortably call down for three streets on blanks.

Calling with hands like 87 spades and 96 clubs helps you to cover spade and club runouts, but are probably pretty bad check calls if not part of a balanced range as outlined above.



Anyway, I like your line, thats just a subject I've been thinking about a lot lately so I thought I'd give my thoughts.

^^

Really interesting and definitely something I need to be thinking about a lot more, which is pretty much why I posted the hand.

At the time I liked my line, but I think I just get really lucky on the turn by hitting the 6-7% of the deck that I can realistically continue oop (any 8 or 6s), which makes the flop chk/call pretty bad when villain is high card heavy. That said, spades are okay as long as I'm confident villain won't check back a spade river and I do have the option of bluff leading the river large if a q/7 turns and the action checks through, or maybe even on q/7 rivers.

Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

I think I just get really lucky on the turn by hitting the 6-7% of the deck that I can realistically continue oop (any 8 or 6s), which makes the flop chk/call pretty bad when villain is high card heavy.

Your best cards are 8 (2 outs), then spades (10 cards), then probably 10 (3), and 7 (3). I guess 6 is an OK card but i tend to believe that one card backdoor straight draws are pretty damn worthless unless you're semibluffing somehow. In the case of c/c they just bail you out when you were behind, but the IP player will shut down on those cards and not put a single dollar in with hands you beat.

You definitely need to have some c/c c/f hands, and hands like these are ideal. The goal though is to not put too many of them in your range. As long as you're pretty sticky (i.e. not folding >40-50%) with your c/c flop range, your weaker hands like this will make a lot more money because they'll get to sd more against aware opponents. And when that happens, in theory, you can add even more weak hands such as 77 or AQ.

I like hero's line if the plan is to bluff Q or 7. Renton's comments certainly are interesting. Not something to worry about at 5nl where I'm currently at, but at 50nl a balanced range is definitely something you need to be thinking about a lot.

I'm pretty meh about c/c with 78ss here. It seems like a nice pair+draw hand, but we can't even be that happy on a T or 7 runout, so we're mostly only happy with an 8.

Would rather c/c hands like AJ/KJ/QJ/JT/TT/9T here.

Yeah I was stressing that this c/c only becomes good if we're pretty balanced with c/cing and villain knows that.