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 Originally Posted by boutron
Hi. This is my first post and I am flashing back to reading an essay in front of class in the eighth grade. Please be more gentle than they were. 
No prob.
Originally Posted by boutron
I have a question about the difference between an EV calc of a bet vs a raise. In other words, what happens to the money that we have to put into the pot just to call the action we are facing?
A bet is just a special name for the first raise. Conversely, a raise is just a special name for a bet that isn't first. The math is identical.
Please be aware that the math in this thread is about the EV of a shove, not a call.
Don't confuse this specific equation as good for evaluating calls. The difference is that in this equation, the action is closed. There can be no future bets, and the equities at this moment are the only equities that matter.
Originally Posted by boutron
In the calculation done based on the OP, there is .75 that is never included.
Please quote the bit you're referencing.
Originally Posted by boutron
Looking at the post above, P should include any bet Hero may be facing. But, that seems to mess up the F*P fold equity by including an amount that is not really part of what we win when the villain folds.
P represents the amount Hero wins when Villain folds. This is the amount of the pot, any bets Villain has made, and any bets Hero made earlier on this round of betting.
E.g. there's 10 in the pot before the first bet, Hero bets 5, Villain raises to 20. The value of P that Hero should use in doing the EV of a shove calculation is 10 + 5 + 20 = 35. P is the total money in the pot at that moment.
Originally Posted by boutron
It would seem like it has to be included somewhere in our pot equity calc. For instance, if we are assuming that we never folding so it is not an additional risk, shouldn't it be included in the E*(P + S)? On the other hand, since folding is technically always an option, should it be part of (1 - E)*S, because that is what we are risking...and that is really what that portion of the calculation is about.
WE ASSUME WE ARE SHOVING!!!
Other than that, it sounds like you're talking about a specific post in this thread, but you didn't quote it, so I don't know which of the many posts in the thread to which you refer.
Please quote the post you are referencing and I'll try to give an answer.
Originally Posted by boutron
I hope I have made some sense. I am really curious about this because as the size of the bet we are facing increases, the larger impact it would seem to make on the final EV calc.
The equation is the same, whatever numbers you plug into it. If you have no fold equity, then F=0. If you have a pure bluff, with no equity when you get called, then E=0. The math still shows you whether it's a +EV shove. The math does not tell you if it's the most +EV line to take, only the EV of your proposed line (shoving).
Originally Posted by boutron
Thanks so much for any help...and more importantly, thanks so much for all the great posts I have been reading the last few weeks!
 Welcome to the forum.
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