Overpair multiway, wet board

[BorisTheSpider]

The HJ is 18/15/5, the BB I don't have many hands on yet but looks like some sort of aggro fish.


Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $5.40 (54 bb)
SB: $6.42 (64.2 bb)
BB: $21.21 (212.1 bb)
UTG: $11.23 (112.3 bb)
MP: $42.60 (426 bb)
Hero (CO): $15.45 (154.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q Q
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) T 5 9 (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $0.54

Hero ???

[griffey24]

Meh given sizing of bet I'm tempted to raise flop.

I don't hate calling either, but I'd rather raise.

[abelardx]

I doubt a tag makes a suck bet on this wet a flop. I'd interpret this as someone wanting to draw cheap and always raise with the overpair.

[BorisTheSpider]

Meh given sizing of bet I'm tempted to raise flop.

I don't hate calling either, but I'd rather raise.

Thanks, I posted without showing that I did call, because I was interested to see if everyone wanted to raise flop (and hated a call) because of board texture and multiway. I'm not surprised you think a raise is better, but I am a bit surprised you don't hate the call.

As played:


Flop: ($0.95) T 5 9 (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $0.54, Hero calls $0.54, BB raises to $1.80, MP folds

What now?

[griffey24]

Calling and re-evaluating. You're so under-repped a fold would be super nitty, but a raise would be way overplaying.

[OngBonga]

I'm calling flop (both to bet and raise) for what I assume is the reason we're calling pre instead of 3betting... because we want the aggro donk on the bb to overplay his hand. Now MP has stood aside I'm calling BB down all the way, only really hating two spades or a ten. If BB sucks out, so be it.

Normally I'm 3betting this pre but I don't really want to play my big pair vs a nit, I'd rather keep the fish in the pot.

[Cobra_1878]

I'm probably 3betting pre.

I am also raising this flop, pretty wet board and don't want anyone drawing cheaply.

As played, call and see the turn.

[The Bean Counter]

Fold versus flop raise as played imo.

[kickass]

^I thought this too. I would raise the flop tho

[BorisTheSpider]

Everyone who wants to 3bet this pre - how much action do you think we get from worse when we 3bet a nit who opened in early position? We could also easily end up folding the best hand pre - ie. if he 4bets [KK+, AKs, AKo] we fold pre vs. his AK over half the time.

If he flats a 3bet, it's probably even worse - if he c/c this flop, and the turn bricks, I have to bet again because of board texture but I'm either only folding out worse, or I'm value towning myself.

Ong has a point that we want the agrodonk to overplay his hand, but I'm actually not flatting because of that, I'm flatting because I can't see how 3betting a nit who opened in EP doesn't overplay my own hand.

[griffey24]

Saying he's 18/15/5 isn't thattt relevant. It's more relevant what his stats are by position and in this case the HJ. Also how they react to 3bets.

Either way, given stacks I think flatting pre is fine.

As played, villain makes a weak ass bet on a drawy board which looks pretty weak. Now we call a weak ass bet IP on a draw board looks even weaker. If i was in BB's spot I'd prob be squeezing an Tx or even 9x figuring I block strong hands and that I'm even good there.

[abelardx]

There are 30 tpgk combos, 6 JJ, one QQ, 12 KK+, 9 top two pairs, 9 sets, 10 nfd's, and 7 non-nut combo draws.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: Ts9s5c
Equity Win Tie
MP2 48.34% 47.63% 0.71% { 99+, 55, ATs, KTs, QTs, T9s, AsKs, AsQs, KsQs, AsJs, KsJs, QsJs, As8s, Js8s, As7s, 8s7s, As6s, 8s6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, ATo, KTo, QTo, T9o }
MP3 51.66% 50.95% 0.71% { QdQc }

On a blank turn we're a little better:

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: Ts9s5c2h
Equity Win Tie
MP2 43.48% 42.88% 0.60% { 99+, 55, ATs, KTs, QTs, T9s, AsKs, AsQs, KsQs, AsJs, KsJs, QsJs, As8s, Js8s, As7s, 8s7s, As6s, 8s6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, ATo, KTo, QTo, T9o }
MP3 56.52% 55.91% 0.60% { QdQc }

This is a tough spot. As played, I think folding, calling and committing on blank turns, or even jamming are all reasonable. Deep though, I'd lean towards calling and re-evaluation ott.

However that will leave us in some bad spots too. What if the turn is a blank and BB pots it or jams?

If we call the flop raise I think it has to be with the intention of committing on blank turns, otherwise we should fold now, esp since we're deep and far from committed.

IME at the micros this flop action is almost always a made hand beating one pair. But that could be selective memory. I like a fold, but all three options are probably not terrible.

[abelardx]

EP opens from tight players are heavily weighted towards pocket pairs and then big aces. MP bricks on this flop most of the time. If he is really interested it's mostly overpairs, then sets, then nfd's.

edit: Oh I see he folded. Disregard.

[BorisTheSpider]

OK so people seem to like calling to re-evaluate the turn.

On a brick turn if bets any reasonable size it sets up a river shove, so in that scenario on the turn, what are we doing?

If you like calling the turn, are we then commited to calling any river, or do you think we can call say a 3/4 pot turn bet then fold to a river shove?