TPTK OOP

This specific hand is not especially important, I'm just posting it because I'd like some input on this general spot.

Against someone not terrible (opponent here is 22/15 with 4.5% 3bet, but generally think anyone who's not a fish) what lines do you all like in spots like this to avoid inducing a bluff, but control the pot somewhat (as much as possible OOP) and get an appropriate amount of value for your hand?

Firstly, I'll suggest that perhaps the flop is too big here?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $11.81 (47.2 bb)
SB: $26.25 (105 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (UTG): $49.57 (198.3 bb)
MP: $40.19 (160.8 bb)
CO: $35.54 (142.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q A
Hero raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, 4 folds

Flop: ($1.85) 9 2 Q (2 players)
Hero bets $1.75, MP calls $1.75

Turn: ($5.35) T (2 players)
Hero ???

I think a smaller bet OTF is better, especially when it's an arid flop like that, against a thinking opponent. I think ~$1.00 is a good size for this flop, just over 1/2 PSB.

If Villain has noticed that you C-bet too often, even though it's vs. fish, then he'll be more inclined to float OTF and fire OTT. As such, I think a c/c is the best move OTT.

OTR, I think you can b/f as long as a K or 8 doesn't drop. If the 8 falls OTR, c/c (if Villain is likely to bluff) or c/f (if Villain is one of the "honest on the river" types). If the K comes, it's a pretty easy c/f, since Villain will play KQ, KJ or AK pretty similarly OTF, and his other 2-pair hands are less likely to bet when there's a 4-straight on board.

$1 is too small imo, and yeah this bet is too big. I doubt we're losing here, this is a prime flop for a set to raise. Villain will know he gets no more value from AK, so he'll turn his attention towards the AQ KK+ in our range with sets and raise. So this look like KQ and JT, or he's floating. I'm not sure all that many people will float at pot size, so I'm leaning KQ JT and I'm gonna b/f turn, around 3/4 pot.

Flop I'd have led around the $1.30 mark.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

$1 is too small imo, and yeah this bet is too big. I doubt we're losing here, this is a prime flop for a set to raise. Villain will know he gets no more value from AK, so he'll turn his attention towards the AQ KK+ in our range with sets and raise. So this look like KQ and JT, or he's floating. I'm not sure all that many people will float at pot size, so I'm leaning KQ JT and I'm gonna b/f turn, around 3/4 pot.

Flop I'd have led around the $1.30 mark.

Agree that flop was too big.

If you bet turn 3/4 and are called, are you also b/f a brick river and if so what size.

I think the big issue here is the size of the flop bet, because it snowballs. If I do hit the turn for 3/4 now, it's a big river pot and I've either got to b/f in a pot that's bloating to be out of proportion to the value I think my hand is worth, or I've got to check and then wonder if I get bet into on the river whether I've induced a bluff by checking, or whether he's value towning me. So I think I avoid all that trouble by sizing the flop better in the first place.

I think the flop bet is fine. I'd check the turn on a dry flop and bet on a wet flop. I'm very happy if two bets go in postflop.

In this particular situation with some straights and thus some two pairs possible, I would probably c/c the turn. That really defines our hand but I wouldn't expect villain to know/exploit that. And then make a decision on the river, expecting him to often check it back.

I agree that the flop bet was too big. I would probably half bet 3/4 pot here maybe slightly less. The problem comes after than when he calls and 10 opens up lods of hnads that have you beat. I would say you would need to follow up with another bet on the turn but be willing to fold if you get re-raised. Having said that if he has you beat with a straight then he is probably only calling the turn bet in which case I think you have to check the River and let it go if he bets.

Originally Posted by abelardx

I think the flop bet is fine. I'd check the turn on a dry flop and bet on a wet flop. I'm very happy if two bets go in postflop.

Yeah, I'm more comfortable feeling my hand deserves a bit more value on a drawier board, but it still leaves a tough river spot - if we check a bloated river pot, I'm concerned about how often we induce a bluff.

In this particular situation with some straights and thus some two pairs possible, I would probably c/c the turn. That really defines our hand but I wouldn't expect villain to know/exploit that.

Yeah, I do like c/c turn, as MMM pointed out it induces villain to bluff, and at a point where the pot is not yet uncomfortably big for our hand. If he checks back the turn, we can comfortably bet most rivers for value and achieve about the pot size we wanted.

As you said, I don't really care about defining my hand by checking the turn, if he does bet-bet turn and river after we check, I think I'm gonna consider his tendencies and against someone more aggressive maybe call a few more rivers, but I do feel like most villains at these levels are not capable of following through after stabbing at the turn, so I don't feel like we're going to incorrectly fold that many rivers.

Originally Posted by Tom1559

I agree that the flop bet was too big. I would probably half bet 3/4 pot here maybe slightly less. The problem comes after than when he calls and 10 opens up lods of hnads that have you beat. I would say you would need to follow up with another bet on the turn but be willing to fold if you get re-raised. Having said that if he has you beat with a straight then he is probably only calling the turn bet in which case I think you have to check the River and let it go if he bets.

You see this is the possibility which I don't like - I don't like bet-bet flop and turn to then check river because I feel like we induce a river bluff. Wheras I don't feel like we induce so many bluffs if we c/c turn, because I don't think he follows through on the river so often. Someone tough enough might see that our hand can't take a ton of pressure, but mostly I think after we call the turn he'll just give up.

Perhaps it really depends on the turn - I certainly don't want to let him check behind when the turn gives him a lot more draws, but if I can check turn planning to call I think that has two benefits - he can stab with his air like MMM said, and he can check behind and do my pot control for me.

Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider

If you bet turn 3/4 and are called, are you also b/f a brick river and if so what size.

Depends on the river, obviously I hate 8 J and K, good rivers I'll b/f around 70%, expecting him to snap his KQ and QJ.

Yeah agree that the flop sizing makes life difficult for us on later streets, but then again we're getting great value from his Qx hands.

Keep betting until raised, unless a bad river comes out.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Keep betting until raised, unless a bad river comes out.

Pretty much. I'm thinking b/f b/f b/f as standard here. It's just the flop sizing which I don't like.

Sup boris. I didn't look at the other guys replies cause I saved this post last night and didn't have time to respond till now.

But as for the hand. pre, I like the open. as soon as we know we re HU we can start thinkin bout his flatting range pre. I think constructing a good range here can be hard. From the info you gave we have to kinda guess how POS Aware he may or may not be. Do we give him pp's ,some Axs , and a few b ways. or do we add more sc's???

b/f b/f b/f profit IMO

If you wanna c/c the turn vs floats do it with the weaker sd part of your range that hates getting raised more. Eg. JTs QJ etc.

There's very few hands that bet turns that don't call turns esp with this flop sizing, which is a bit big here vs a reg, vs a fish it's probably fine.

and get an appropriate amount of value for your hand?

This amount should be 3 streets if we size correctly. Sorry for triple post rant.