Correct to push here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 (t300)
CO (t7910)
Hero (t14487)
SB (t4459)
BB (t6310)
UTG (t9423)
UTG+1 (t9818)
MP1 (t10860)
MP2 (t12353)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, K.
UTG calls t200, 5 folds, Hero raises to t700, SB calls t600, 1 fold, UTG calls t500.

Flop: (t2300) 8, K, A (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets t1200, SB raises to t3759, UTG raises to t6318, Hero raises to t13787, UTG calls t2405 (All-In).

Turn: (t28569) A (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t28569) 2 (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t28569

Yup.

You are at worst about a 1/3 chance to win (just counting your outs for the flush).

Thanks chard!

i think you can easily cold call and take another card, but the problem is you made the pot way too big. I wouldnt have raised preflop with UTG limp, just too shady of a play. I woould cold call this preflop if your going to play, you have the button and you dont wanna commit your chips with K9. However, why not jus call the flop bet. If you believe youre a better player, try not to gamble on an at worst1/3 shot for the tourney, your one of the leaders at the table, play small pots until you hit that nut flush than jam the pot. Especially the way the UTG limp: its likely he has an ace an he c-bets on the flop which means its likely he has an ace. I think its better to just call....anyone else?

fold pre flop

rest is standard. why would he bother just calling the flop, SB is already AI, UTG has 2k behind.

Originally Posted by drmcboy

fold pre flop

Without a read yes. But with a read the raise is fine here.

did I miss the read?

raising K9s types here is a classic trap you start falling into when you figure out aggresive is the way to go in poker, so you start building a pot with no FE and a hand that is way behind standard UTG limp range and has a good chance of being dominated. Position is great, but it is not a reason to spew.

You didn't miss a read, and I agree with everything you say.

But... if UTG is a guy who tries to see 35% of flops by limping and has shown that he actually will lay down a limp to a raise, then the raise here is fine (as long as you don't go aggro if it does get called preflop - which I think is the bigger error that the newly realized "aggression is best" followers fall into).

Sometimes, with stacks this deep, and you are at a table where limping is being allowed, you also just need to raise preflop at some point to teach the table that you are not going to tolerate this any longer.

But - yes, raising with a crap hand like K9s without a read is a no-no since the majority of people limping UTG either have a monster that they are hoping will get raised, or they are too dumb to realize that when you raise they really should fold, so your raise accomplishes nothing.

Originally Posted by Roco415

i think you can easily cold call and take another card, but the problem is you made the pot way too big. I wouldnt have raised preflop with UTG limp, just too shady of a play. I woould cold call this preflop if your going to play, you have the button and you dont wanna commit your chips with K9. However, why not jus call the flop bet. If you believe youre a better player, try not to gamble on an at worst1/3 shot for the tourney, your one of the leaders at the table, play small pots until you hit that nut flush than jam the pot. Especially the way the UTG limp: its likely he has an ace an he c-bets on the flop which means its likely he has an ace. I think its better to just call....anyone else?

The UTG was a weak player who liked to limp into a lot of pots in any pos, so I didn't really see him as a threat, and if I was entering this hand, I wanted to represent strength pre flop and after.

Not sure on the flop action. It was raised and reraised to you, someone must have monster hands here... the only draw I think was good is your flush draw and a board pairing will leave you drawing dead, for sure..

even if it's just the FD, he must play. You should be sure.

also the idea that both have two pair plus and his K and 9 are not live is pretty silly.

I don't like the raise pre-flop with an UTG limper. I understand what you were trying to do, but not with K9s. I think a better hand would be scs or pps. At least when you get called you know where you are at a little better than if you hit a K and say shit now what.

With your stack you can call for odds sake and hope to hit a flop. You did just that and now put them to the test and push. Post flop good.

Am I the only one that doesn't necessarily want to put my whole tournament on the line for a coinflip? Yeah, you have the odds because there's dead money in the pot, but with that stack, I'm expecting to do a lot more than break even which is roughly what you are getting into an even coinflip.

I'm not saying the postflop line above is bad, but part of me prefers a smooth call.

how are you playing the turn if you miss?

That particular turn, I'm probably checking or folding. Most I'm calling a reasonable bet.

Somehow last night I missed that this was three-handed, however, which changes everything. It's much less likely that a smooth call ensures a turn card, and instead of being even with the odds, you're way ahead. Plus you have significantly more chips left than I was thinking you would when you lose. I take back my argument against pushing.