Help me evolve

I came across this from 2+2 and it seemed like a good description of where I view myself currently. Step 3 is where I think I am at:

Step 3: Leapers
If a poster progresses this far they are on their way. They have made the first leap, that is, they have found math. They have grasped that the "rules" are just a shorthand way to deal with frequent situations, and that they stem from the math. Specifically they begin assigning hand ranges, and figuring out how their hand fares against those ranges. This stage usually finds posters responding to many many posts (usually authoratatively and usually correctly) because while they are helping answer the question the poster is asking they are also helping themselves become more comfortable assigning ranges and doing complicated EV calculations. If a poster makes it to this point they are more than likely a winning player which makes it oh so tempting to stall and not continue on to.....


Step 4: Poker Players
If you make it here, the math has become 2nd nature (even the most complicated of it). You main focus is no longer individual decisions but rather lines (the series of decisions you make in a hand looked at collectively). Often when responding to basic questions these posters leave out explicit calculations because it has become so second nature that they can intuit the correct action without having to do the math out (this can occasionally make them a little hard to distinguish from the cunfuzzled). By focusing on how to play the hand as a whole these posters learn how to make better postflop decisions and often it leads to them leaving the forum in favor of cash games as for the first time they may be equipped for it. A poster who reaches this level is clearly a very good tournament player (although might still be a very middle of the road cash game player) and its easy for them to think they have nothing left to learn.

So basically I am looking for how to evolve from one to the other. I dont need to be spoon fed but I would like some direction. What are some things I can exercise that will help improve my game as a tourney player? Currently, I feel post flop is my worst game, along with re-steals, and general bluffing as a whole.

I know posting HH is good but it feels so small picture compared to the concepts I need to learn to get better. Sometimes I'll sit down to review my sessions and I'll wonder what the hell I'm even looking for. I'm not above posting HH but right now I'm at a level where I would be asking the wrong questions simply because I don't know them.

"How to get better" is kind of a big topic and it's different for everyone. Read, watch vids, review HHs, and put in volume. If you want to learn about re steals, do some sample math on raising ranges vs range to cal a 3 bet.

I'd start by reading more, books, the forum, whatever. You made a post in the commune the other day because you were not willing to read the information provided on the tournament details page and not able to interpret the info on the lobby page, which really wasn't very confusing. That's a warning sign to me that you may or may not be looking at a lot of information but you definitely aren't absorbing it.

Originally Posted by revolvingiris

So basically I am looking for how to evolve from one to the other. I dont need to be spoon fed but I would like some direction. What are some things I can exercise that will help improve my game as a tourney player? Currently, I feel post flop is my worst game, along with re-steals, and general bluffing as a whole.

Playing cash games can really take your post flop and bluffing game to the next level. I would strongly suggest playing some 6max NLHE cash and posting in the short-handed NL forum. I know that really helped my post flop and bluffing. Getting better at post flop gives you the biggest edge in MTT's because most players, even good ones, are still pretty bad post flop.

Yes, playing cash PLO has very much improved my MTT skills across all games, you get so much more experience with the deep stacks playing cash and you have more freedom to experiment with bluff lines, especially if you play below your BR.

Originally Posted by drmcboy

You made a post in the commune the other day because you were not willing to read the information provided on the tournament details page and not able to interpret the info on the lobby page, which really wasn't very confusing.

That was kind of a "dah" moment and shouldn't reflect my ability to study/learn. I would agree with you if you based your statement on how I respond to other posts or during the different times we have discussed.

I watch a sick amount of videos however most I have seen don't offer the understanding I am looking for. It does me no good to watch how someone else plays without knowing the theory behind why they made that play. I hear and understand the simple concepts some of the pros discuss but I don't really want simple anymore.

Playing SHNL was a great idea along with doing the 3bet ranges. I am working on a ton of combo thing right now which I think is a better way to figure out plays than pokerstove.

I have never ever felt like you've listened to me when we have discussed things. I'm glad if you do but you do not give off that impression at all. I still reply to your posts because it's good practice for

tilt control (I'm good at this but you can never be too good)

&

dealing with people who frustrate me (I suck at this).

I also believe that the more activity there is on the board, the better.

The commune post was (for me) the rule of you, so to speak, rather than the exception.

Originally Posted by drmcboy

I have never ever felt like you've listened to me when we have discussed things. I'm glad if you do but you do not give off that impression at all.

fwiw i get this feeling too. but i think its just a misunderstanding since ive talked with you outside of the forum and seem open to suggestions

i feel like the spokesperson for sngwiz, but it really it really is worth the money. im sort of worried about the math calcs your doing. you save time and wont have to worry about making sure the math is correct.

Well I'll work on making it feel less like that. Its a complete misunderstanding and I listen to every thing everyone says.

I own SnGWiz and I do use it but for me personally doing the math is fun. I fee like I can get a better grasp of the game when I'm working with it and can see it how it functions.

Originally Posted by sinister1

Playing cash games can really take your post flop and bluffing game to the next level. I would strongly suggest playing some 6max NLHE cash and posting in the short-handed NL forum. I know that really helped my post flop and bluffing. Getting better at post flop gives you the biggest edge in MTT's because most players, even good ones, are still pretty bad post flop.

I definitely agree with this, however it brings up a question. I only play 6max cash games and it seems like I tend to do much better at the 6max tournaments than in FR tournaments. I am thinking that this could be because the hand ranges I assign at a full table may be too loose because I am so used to 6max. Is this normal or is it a leak that I just need to keep working on?

Originally Posted by GatorJH

Originally Posted by sinister1

Playing cash games can really take your post flop and bluffing game to the next level. I would strongly suggest playing some 6max NLHE cash and posting in the short-handed NL forum. I know that really helped my post flop and bluffing. Getting better at post flop gives you the biggest edge in MTT's because most players, even good ones, are still pretty bad post flop.

I definitely agree with this, however it brings up a question. I only play 6max cash games and it seems like I tend to do much better at the 6max tournaments than in FR tournaments. I am thinking that this could be because the hand ranges I assign at a full table may be too loose because I am so used to 6max. Is this normal or is it a leak that I just need to keep working on?

Use my philosophy: If you think it could be a leak, fix it.

3-betting comes to mind most readily. FR 3-bets are MUCH tighter in my experience.