How do I bridge the 10% gap in MTT's

I've noticed that when I play in mid to large MTT's (my fav game) (ranging from 600 players to 1000+)

I seem to finish in the top 10% and lower, yet I can't seal the deal and find myself at a final table. I mean I can't pin point the reason, obviously I am doing something right to make it that deep into the tourny, but it seems that I take a bad beat and I am gone or something happens where I make the incorrect read, SOMETHING!

Without pulling my hair about this, maybe some of you gurus can offer some end game advice after the bubble has bursted and we're all in the money. I mean I am not lazy I've read numerous threads about this and applied it but still get the same results

some samples:


39th out of 943
48th out of 602
106th out of 1740
60th out of 2062
81st out of 1027
28th out of 1314
38th out of 1024
9th out of 1060
133th out of 1204

What stack size and position do you normally have when you get ITM? If you only just limp past the bubble then your chances of making it deep and onto the final table are low. Maybe you need to be more aggressive on the the bubble, when many others are tightening up, in order to get a decent enough stack to get to the final table.

This part of the tourney is where your luckbox needs to really become good. You are going to see a lot of AT versus JQ type hands because the blinds are just so damn big. You really just need to be real good at picking your spots here and hope your luckbox holds up when you are called.

Well that's the thing, I usually have a pretty decent stack, I guess I need a new luckbox because mine sucks, for example:

check out my stack size compared to others:

*********** # 43 **************
PokerStars Game #4257754686: Tournament #20793147, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2006/03/11 - 23:43:44 (ET)
Table '20793147 57' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: NoShortSales (4880 in chips)
Seat 3: shysti (22065 in chips)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (6623 in chips)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (7195 in chips)
Seat 6: punedigas (19886 in chips)
Seat 7: tteezz (85647 in chips)
Seat 8: alvand (33851 in chips)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (6715 in chips)
NoShortSales: posts the ante 75
shysti: posts the ante 75
deadmoney8: posts the ante 75
shellman1104: posts the ante 75
punedigas: posts the ante 75
tteezz: posts the ante 75
alvand: posts the ante 75
JJones5577: posts the ante 75
shellman1104: posts small blind 600
punedigas: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [6s As]
tteezz: folds
alvand: folds
JJones5577: folds
NoShortSales: folds
shysti: raises 1200 to 2400
deadmoney8: folds
shellman1104: folds
punedigas: folds
shysti collected 3600 from pot
shysti: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3600 | Rake 0
Seat 1: NoShortSales folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: shysti collected (3600)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: punedigas (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: tteezz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: alvand folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JJones5577 folded before Flop (didn't bet)



PokerStars Game #4257876711: Tournament #20793147, Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (800/1600) - 2006/03/11 - 23:53:45 (ET)
Table '20793147 57' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: NoShortSales (3360 in chips)
Seat 2: mikeyone1 (6375 in chips)
Seat 3: shysti (25890 in chips)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (11573 in chips)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (12215 in chips)
Seat 6: crazedtexan (17812 in chips)
Seat 7: tteezz (82067 in chips)
Seat 8: alvand (38477 in chips)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (14030 in chips)
NoShortSales: posts the ante 75
mikeyone1: posts the ante 75
shysti: posts the ante 75
deadmoney8: posts the ante 75
shellman1104: posts the ante 75
crazedtexan: posts the ante 75
tteezz: posts the ante 75
alvand: posts the ante 75
JJones5577: posts the ante 75
mikeyone1: posts small blind 800
shysti: posts big blind 1600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [8h Kd]
deadmoney8: folds
shellman1104: folds
crazedtexan: folds
tteezz: folds
alvand: calls 1600
JJones5577: folds
NoShortSales: folds
mikeyone1: folds
shysti: checks
*** FLOP *** [3h 9s 5c]
shysti: bets 2400
alvand: calls 2400
*** TURN *** [3h 9s 5c] [5d]
shysti: bets 4500
alvand: folds
shysti collected 9475 from pot
shysti: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9475 | Rake 0
Board [3h 9s 5c 5d]
Seat 1: NoShortSales (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: mikeyone1 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: shysti (big blind) collected (9475)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: shellman1104 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: crazedtexan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tteezz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: alvand folded on the Turn
Seat 9: JJones5577 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


PokerStars Game #4257961637: Tournament #20793147, Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (800/1600) - 2006/03/12 - 00:00:57 (ET)
Table '20793147 57' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: frunchen (31969 in chips)
Seat 2: gcDanno (23370 in chips)
Seat 3: shysti (32965 in chips)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (8498 in chips)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (12065 in chips)
Seat 6: crazedtexan (17974 in chips)
Seat 7: tteezz (80467 in chips)
Seat 8: alvand (39425 in chips)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (15630 in chips)
frunchen: posts the ante 75
gcDanno: posts the ante 75
shysti: posts the ante 75
deadmoney8: posts the ante 75
shellman1104: posts the ante 75
crazedtexan: posts the ante 75
tteezz: posts the ante 75
alvand: posts the ante 75
JJones5577: posts the ante 75
gcDanno: posts small blind 800
shysti: posts big blind 1600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [Qs 9d]
deadmoney8: folds
shellman1104: folds
crazedtexan: folds
tteezz: folds
alvand: folds
JJones5577: folds
frunchen: folds
gcDanno: raises 3200 to 4800
shysti: calls 3200
*** FLOP *** [8h 9s 5c]
gcDanno: checks
shysti: bets 28090 and is all-in
gcDanno: folds
shysti collected 10275 from pot
shysti: shows [Qs 9d] (a pair of Nines)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10275 | Rake 0
Board [8h 9s 5c]
Seat 1: frunchen (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: gcDanno (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: shysti (big blind) collected (10275)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: shellman1104 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: crazedtexan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tteezz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: alvand folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JJones5577 folded before Flop (didn't bet

Then for some hairball reason I make a donk play like this:

PokerStars Game #4258085382: Tournament #20793147, Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2006/03/12 - 00:11:35 (ET)
Table '20793147 57' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: frunchen (34444 in chips)
Seat 2: gcDanno (24945 in chips)
Seat 3: shysti (44940 in chips)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (5498 in chips)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (9065 in chips)
Seat 6: crazedtexan (11574 in chips)
Seat 7: tteezz (76867 in chips)
Seat 8: alvand (37725 in chips)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (17305 in chips)
frunchen: posts the ante 100
gcDanno: posts the ante 100
shysti: posts the ante 100
deadmoney8: posts the ante 100
shellman1104: posts the ante 100
crazedtexan: posts the ante 100
tteezz: posts the ante 100
alvand: posts the ante 100
JJones5577: posts the ante 100
JJones5577: posts small blind 1000
frunchen: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [Kh 8c]
gcDanno: folds
shysti: calls 2000
deadmoney8: folds
shellman1104: folds
crazedtexan: folds
tteezz: folds
alvand: folds
JJones5577: raises 4000 to 6000
frunchen: folds
shysti: calls 4000
*** FLOP *** [Tc 5d 6h]
JJones5577: bets 6000
shysti: raises 32840 to 38840 and is all-in
JJones5577: calls 5205 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Tc 5d 6h] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [Tc 5d 6h 3h] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JJones5577: shows [Ah Ac] (three of a kind, Aces)
shysti: shows [Kh 8c] (high card Ace)
JJones5577 collected 37310 from pot
shysti said, "bah"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 37310 | Rake 0
Board [Tc 5d 6h 3h As]
Seat 1: frunchen (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: gcDanno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: shysti showed [Kh 8c] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 4: deadmoney8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: shellman1104 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: crazedtexan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tteezz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: alvand (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (small blind) showed [Ah Ac] and won (37310) with three of a kind, Aces

downward spiral , maybe I was tired dunno:

PokerStars Game #4258114573: Tournament #20793147, Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2006/03/12 - 00:14:05 (ET)
Table '20793147 57' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: frunchen (31144 in chips)
Seat 2: gcDanno (27545 in chips)
Seat 3: shysti (23435 in chips)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (5198 in chips)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (8765 in chips)
Seat 6: crazedtexan (11274 in chips)
Seat 7: tteezz (70567 in chips)
Seat 8: alvand (47325 in chips)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (37110 in chips)
frunchen: posts the ante 100
gcDanno: posts the ante 100
shysti: posts the ante 100
deadmoney8: posts the ante 100
shellman1104: posts the ante 100
crazedtexan: posts the ante 100
tteezz: posts the ante 100
alvand: posts the ante 100
JJones5577: posts the ante 100
shysti: posts small blind 1000
deadmoney8: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [5c Qd]
shellman1104: folds
crazedtexan: folds
tteezz: folds
alvand: folds
JJones5577: folds
frunchen: folds
gcDanno: folds
shysti: calls 1000
deadmoney8: raises 3098 to 5098 and is all-in
shysti: calls 3098
*** FLOP *** [2d Th Jd]
*** TURN *** [2d Th Jd] [Ks]
*** RIVER *** [2d Th Jd Ks] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
shysti: shows [5c Qd] (high card King)
deadmoney8: shows [As 5d] (high card Ace)
deadmoney8 collected 11096 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 11096 | Rake 0
Board [2d Th Jd Ks 8h]
Seat 1: frunchen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: gcDanno (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: shysti (small blind) showed [5c Qd] and lost with high card King
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (big blind) showed [As 5d] and won (11096) with high card Ace
Seat 5: shellman1104 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: crazedtexan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tteezz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: alvand folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JJones5577 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Now I am takin this from the email I had poker stars sent me, and I am seeing this for the 1st time as I post it, and realize I am on tilt!:

PokerStars Game #4258128936: Tournament #20793147, Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2006/03/12 - 00:15:19 (ET)
Table '20793147 57' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: frunchen (36844 in chips)
Seat 2: gcDanno (27345 in chips)
Seat 3: shysti (18137 in chips)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (9996 in chips)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (6565 in chips)
Seat 6: crazedtexan (11074 in chips)
Seat 7: tteezz (70367 in chips)
Seat 8: alvand (47125 in chips)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (34910 in chips)
frunchen: posts the ante 100
gcDanno: posts the ante 100
shysti: posts the ante 100
deadmoney8: posts the ante 100
shellman1104: posts the ante 100
crazedtexan: posts the ante 100
tteezz: posts the ante 100
alvand: posts the ante 100
JJones5577: posts the ante 100
shellman1104: posts small blind 1000
crazedtexan: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [9s 8s]
tteezz: folds
alvand: folds
JJones5577: folds
frunchen: folds
gcDanno: folds
shysti: raises 3500 to 5500
deadmoney8: raises 4396 to 9896 and is all-in
shellman1104: folds
crazedtexan: raises 1078 to 10974 and is all-in
shysti: calls 5474
*** FLOP *** [Js 2s 3d]
*** TURN *** [Js 2s 3d] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Js 2s 3d Qd] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
crazedtexan: shows [4h As] (a pair of Deuces)
shysti: shows [9s 8s] (a pair of Deuces - lower kicker)
crazedtexan collected 2156 from side pot
deadmoney8: shows [Ad Qh] (two pair, Queens and Deuces)
deadmoney8 collected 31588 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 33744 Main pot 31588. Side pot 2156. | Rake 0
Board [Js 2s 3d Qd 2h]
Seat 1: frunchen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: gcDanno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: shysti showed [9s 8s] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (button) showed [Ad Qh] and won (31588) with two pair, Queens and Deuces
Seat 5: shellman1104 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: crazedtexan (big blind) showed [4h As] and won (2156) with a pair of Deuces
Seat 7: tteezz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: alvand folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JJones5577 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Game #4258187273: Tournament #20793147, Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2006/03/12 - 00:20:22 (ET)
Table '20793147 57' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: frunchen (40044 in chips)
Seat 2: gcDanno (27260 in chips)
Seat 3: shysti (4463 in chips)
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (30988 in chips)
Seat 5: shellman1104 (13771 in chips)
Seat 6: crazedtexan (4880 in chips)
Seat 7: tteezz (82467 in chips)
Seat 8: alvand (29280 in chips)
Seat 9: JJones5577 (29210 in chips)
frunchen: posts the ante 100
gcDanno: posts the ante 100
shysti: posts the ante 100
deadmoney8: posts the ante 100
shellman1104: posts the ante 100
crazedtexan: posts the ante 100
tteezz: posts the ante 100
alvand: posts the ante 100
JJones5577: posts the ante 100
shysti: posts small blind 1000
deadmoney8: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [Ad 6h]
shellman1104: folds
crazedtexan: folds
tteezz: folds
alvand: folds
JJones5577: folds
frunchen: folds
gcDanno: raises 2000 to 4000
shysti: raises 363 to 4363 and is all-in
deadmoney8: calls 2363
gcDanno: calls 363
*** FLOP *** [Qc Ts 4c]
deadmoney8: checks
gcDanno: checks
*** TURN *** [Qc Ts 4c] [5s]
deadmoney8: checks
gcDanno: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qc Ts 4c 5s] [8c]
deadmoney8: checks
gcDanno: bets 4000
deadmoney8: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gcDanno: shows [2c Kc] (a flush, King high)
shysti: shows [Ad 6h] (high card Ace)
gcDanno collected 13989 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 13989 | Rake 0
Board [Qc Ts 4c 5s 8c]
Seat 1: frunchen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: gcDanno (button) showed [2c Kc] and won (13989) with a flush, King high
Seat 3: shysti (small blind) showed [Ad 6h] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 4: deadmoney8 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 5: shellman1104 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: crazedtexan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tteezz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: alvand folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JJones5577 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Sigh, it was pretty late for me, after working all day, at the time I was sitting there like how did I lose this tournament, but now I realize it may have been a combo of being tired/tilt which is the worst combo to play poker...sigh

Do not open limp. It's a bad move in basically any game. But it's a very bad move late in an MTT.

Learn to give hands up after your steal attempt gets resistance.

When I mean luckbox needs to work - I mean your 99 has to hold up agaisnt AJ, not that your 5Q os needs to suckout.

Lately I've also been the awesomest at bubbling final tables. My only final table in the last week was a third place in a 250 max $11 tourney that paid a measley $260. Some of my recent finishes:

Stars 3r: 11/2088
Stars 11r: 11/532
Full Tilt 17K: 18/800+
Party 20+2: 12/788

One of those was because I misplayed an AQ hand that I posted here, another one my aces got cracked, and the other two I was getting shortstacked, pushed all-in with a decent hand and got called by a hand that dominated me. In three of those four tournaments I could have easily folded my way to the final table, but I couldn't care less about making the final table. I want to win, and if that means I bubble the final table more often than most, so be it.

If you're usually finishing ITM, you're playing too tight.

Recognize that to win 500+ player tourneys, you're going to be AI with your stack at risk many times. Even if it's only 5 times, and you have pair over pair each time, the math says you go broke.

I didn't read your whole example but step one is NOT making the hairball play. You should be questioning the tourneys you play well and lose anyway, not the ones you know where you went wrong.

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Lately I've also been the awesomest at bubbling final tables. My only final table in the last week was a third place in a 250 max $11 tourney that paid a measley $260. Some of my recent finishes:

Stars 3r: 11/2088
Stars 11r: 11/532
Full Tilt 17K: 18/800+
Party 20+2: 12/788

Add another to the list, Stars 11r: 15/417. I think maybe I need to get more aggressive once I'm in the money. Unless the deck is hitting me in the face, the story tends to be get blinded down a bit, win a race and double up, get blinded down some more, lose a race and bust out. I guess that's normal if you have a mediocre stack but I never seem to be the big stack pushing around the people who don't want to bubble the final table. Whereas on the ITM bubble I'm often bullying like crazy if I have a stack.