multitabling

guys, how many tables you are able to play in the same time ?

i cant play more than 2 tables at the same time....

if i play more than that, i lose all
i also think that, play in more than one table take all the fun away.
i hate when i have to wait for another playersbecause they are playing in to many tables.

i am often thinkin about players i filtered on the sharkscope. When i take a look on the most successful players which play low buy-in tourneys, i am asking how many tables they are playing and if it is neccessary to play not only according to ICM concept.

My point is what is more important on low buy in tournaments, reads of my opponents or great knowing of ICM

in my opinion more important thing its having some fun...

and when i play in multitables i dont have any...

I play max 4 tables at any one time, but I do know of players who regularly play 16+.

Originally Posted by taipan168

I play max 4 tables at any one time, but I do know of players who regularly play 16+.

i assume, that all tables are not in the same stage, i mean you have at least 15 mins starting delay among of them (depends on standard/turbo).

Tai, it means you can not be able to focus on all players from the beggining, maybe you can handle do that from bubble time, right ?
Can you explain me more what all you are able to do if you are 4tabling or link me to another great post written by you or another one.

Thx much

For now I'm sticking with a single table (for SGs), but as soon as it becomes second nature for me, I'll increase. I play 2 tables in Limit Holdem, but thats easier...sit down and wait for good hands.

I am serious about SGs because my bankroll, was less than 15 buy ins when I started a few weeks ago. So, if I stay out of money, is a big deal for me (I play micros).

I have to say that I ideally play 4 tables at a time, it just fits nicely on my laptop screen and according to HEM something like a third of my games this year have been played 4-tabling.

I have 8-9 tabled on my laptop, but I think that starts to suck because of screen size. But as long as one doesn't start all of the tournies at exactly the same time then it's not often a problem...

I play reg 10+1 and DoNs on Party, btw, I can see other forms being less fun to multitable.

Do you guys do anything else while playing? I often have a VLC window open watching some show or film or something... apparently I'm just not one for concentrating overmuch

I mostly 3 or 4 table

Originally Posted by Lance

i assume, that all tables are not in the same stage, i mean you have at least 15 mins starting delay among of them (depends on standard/turbo).

No, I start all my games at the same time as I find it too confusing to have some games at the foldfoldfoldfoldfoldfold early stage, some on the bubble and some heads up

Originally Posted by Lance

Tai, it means you can not be able to focus on all players from the beggining, maybe you can handle do that from bubble time, right ?

I use a heads-up display to give me stats on all of my tables so even if I miss an exact hand I am not without reads. If there are big all-in hands I look through the HH to see what happened if I missed it live. Once it gets to the bubble I do look at every hand.

Originally Posted by Lance

Can you explain me more what all you are able to do if you are 4tabling or link me to another great post written by you or another one.

Search for a post by Nakamura a few weeks ago, that was a pretty good coverage of multitabling. In fact, I might add it to the stickies. EDIT: I did add it to the stickies.

I play 4 tables at a time, that's the max my main site Bodog allows. I find it incredibly boring playing just 1 or 2 tables. I've played 8 on Stars before which was ok but a little too hectic for me.

As far as getting reads on other players ... I don't spend a whole lot of time on it. If you play enough, you'll start to learn who the regulars are and who the winning players are and maybe give them a little more respect than a random. I guess that's a "read" in a sense, but on a game-by-game basis I don't focus too much on each player.

On the other hand, I've read some things where people say reading your opponents is a critical skill to develop for SNGs in order to abuse the bubble (pick on the players that have shown a tendency to fold their blinds, etc.). So maybe I should spend more time on it.

i play 18 tiled on 2 monitors w/ no scripts. I'm gonna have major eye problems/ wrist problems if i don't either A) Learn to cascade/stack and or B) give in and learn how to use scripts.

I started with 1 tabling about a year and a half ago , and slowly moved up. Played 12 for almost a year before trying 15 , than about 3 weeks ago decided to try 18 and been doing that ever since. It gets pretty hectic but i don't think to the point where it is affecting my ROI from when i was 12-15 tabling (obv could have a better roi if i just play like 1-6 tables) , so it's worth it. Will prob max out at like 20 tables , can't really see myself doing more than that.

Originally Posted by DetroitHusling101

i play 18 tiled on 2 monitors w/ no scripts. I'm gonna have major eye problems/ wrist problems if i don't either A) Learn to cascade/stack and or B) give in and learn how to use scripts.

I started with 1 tabling about a year and a half ago , and slowly moved up. Played 12 for almost a year before trying 15 , than about 3 weeks ago decided to try 18 and been doing that ever since. It gets pretty hectic but i don't think to the point where it is affecting my ROI from when i was 12-15 tabling (obv could have a better roi if i just play like 1-6 tables) , so it's worth it. Will prob max out at like 20 tables , can't really see myself doing more than that.

playing more tables means lower ROI but still higher profit rate than lets say 4-5 tables
can you approve it ?

approved!

I approve this approval.

For multi-tabling maniacs.

but logically it cant work on the tournaments with higer buy-in, lets say 20$ and more ?

make 2nd approval !

I usually play 3, sometimes 4, I can handle 4 holdem or omaha h/l but if I play 1 HORSE or stud and 2 holdem the 4h gets tough

i've seen playes with 30 tables at the same time ))

and they win anything?

Originally Posted by vlmcs

and they win anything?

The new SNG instructor at Grinderschool routinely does sessions with around this many going, stacked in quadrants. He's doing ok:



And yes, to handle this many, you ignore what people are doing in the early rounds almost completely and just play a good SNG-format game.

I'm currently stacking 10 on my laptop and it's working out well so far.

Stacking is definitely the way forward. You lose the reads you might make if you could watch the action on several tables, but the compensation is the ability to play 15+ tables at once. I rely quite a bit on a HUD to make some difficult decisions.

i think it depends on the amount of money i am playing for the more i play for the less tables, sometimes i will get drunk and do all free rolls for awhile, so then i might have 6 tables, 3 or 4 sites, if im playing low limit sng i usually have 2-3 if im playing a 30+ buy in i try to keep it to one, and maybe a joker poker slot in the back lol

I 9 tabled tiled and found it to be a little slow... so I've gone up to 12 tabling and its good for me right now

Originally Posted by DetroitHusling101

i play 18 tiled on 2 monitors w/ no scripts. I'm gonna have major eye problems/ wrist problems if i don't either A) Learn to cascade/stack and or B) give in and learn how to use scripts.

I started with 1 tabling about a year and a half ago , and slowly moved up. Played 12 for almost a year before trying 15 , than about 3 weeks ago decided to try 18 and been doing that ever since. It gets pretty hectic but i don't think to the point where it is affecting my ROI from when i was 12-15 tabling (obv could have a better roi if i just play like 1-6 tables) , so it's worth it. Will prob max out at like 20 tables , can't really see myself doing more than that.

umm what is scripting exactly? Also I have no idea where to even begin cascading tables... Tiling seems much more easy to me... wouldn't there be loads of less clicking involved in tiling???

low limit 9 man sngs i can play about 20 at a time. At the lower levels a ton of the decisions are fairly straight forward.

Originally Posted by caddie444

I 9 tabled tiled and found it to be a little slow... so I've gone up to 12 tabling and its good for me right now

Originally Posted by DetroitHusling101

i play 18 tiled on 2 monitors w/ no scripts. I'm gonna have major eye problems/ wrist problems if i don't either A) Learn to cascade/stack and or B) give in and learn how to use scripts.

I started with 1 tabling about a year and a half ago , and slowly moved up. Played 12 for almost a year before trying 15 , than about 3 weeks ago decided to try 18 and been doing that ever since. It gets pretty hectic but i don't think to the point where it is affecting my ROI from when i was 12-15 tabling (obv could have a better roi if i just play like 1-6 tables) , so it's worth it. Will prob max out at like 20 tables , can't really see myself doing more than that.

umm what is scripting exactly? Also I have no idea where to even begin cascading tables... Tiling seems much more easy to me... wouldn't there be loads of less clicking involved in tiling???

Scripts are pieces of code that can be used to do all sorts of funky things from one-click SNG registration, to automatically setting your bet size to hot-keys, to moving tables around your screen.

I personally play stacked tables on Stars. Running in a stack means you one table is exactly over another table. This saves time when making decisions and your neck/wrists as you usually don't have to move as much ... it's fold (and the next table pops up automatically), fold, fold, fold, bet, bet, fold etc. Same amount of mouse clicking, but hardly any mouse movement. Thus your mommy, daddy or auntie or uncle don't have to fetch you from the hospital when you get RSI.

@Nakamura -

I downloaded TableNinja (holy cow, that's good stuff) and the table-mover app, where you hit the spacebar to stack, unstack, but I don't understand the workflow logic, so I'm not having any luck creating a successful stack setup. Can you describe the stack flow a little more?

I'm using a WADS setup for betting (w=3XBB, shift-A=all-in, d=fold, etc) and using the mouse to highlight the active table via TableNinja and HotKeys, but again, I don't know how to make it stack the next decision tables and pop them in and out effectively.

Help!

I'm tiling 4-6 right now, and not liking the results.

Originally Posted by dontezuma

@Nakamura -

I downloaded TableNinja (holy cow, that's good stuff) and the table-mover app, where you hit the spacebar to stack, unstack, but I don't understand the workflow logic, so I'm not having any luck creating a successful stack setup. Can you describe the stack flow a little more?

I'm using a WADS setup for betting (w=3XBB, shift-A=all-in, d=fold, etc) and using the mouse to highlight the active table via TableNinja and HotKeys, but again, I don't know how to make it stack the next decision tables and pop them in and out effectively.

Help!

I'm tiling 4-6 right now, and not liking the results.

No problem, firstly you need to make sure, under "Advanced Multi-table Options", you tick "Popup table whenever user action is required" in the PokerStars Lobby . This way the tables are automatically queued and will pop up when action is required. You can set the options as you like.

PS Lobby -> Options -> Advanced Multi-table Options -> Popup table whenever user action is required.

Next, you may want to make the tables exactly the same size. I opened 20 play-money tables and used PlaceMint, but it was complicated and I can't remember the exact process. Basically you are going to have to figure out how to use PlaceMint or find an alternative program that can resize windows to a pre-determined size. Once it was all sorted I saved the layout as a custom layout.

Next you need AHK. You can find the link in my 2K post in the stickies. Copy Rage2100's code into a blank notepad document and save as Move_table.ahk. You will need to adjust the co-ords to suit your screen and table sizes. Then it's as simple as double clicking on the code, which should put a green "H" in the bottom right of your screen, and the spacebar should make things move around.

Basically, there isn't a short cut and you'll have to spend some time getting it right. Once it's sorted though, it works a treat.

Thanks for the info Nakamura

Thus your mommy, daddy or auntie or uncle don't have to fetch you from the hospital when you get RSI.

I have my mouse sensitivity on MAX, so I barely even have to move it even when tiling lol

Nakamura, I don't suppose I can just send you my laptop so you can do this for me? You may be able to make a living from doing this.

I have just managed to be able to play 4 tables when tiled whilst watching tv, but really want to increase this as per your previous AHK post.

My problem is, I feel practically computer illiterate when reading your guide.

Can you by any chance make an idiots step by step guide on exactly how to do this, or is that what the last post was & I am just too much of an idiot to get it.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

Nakamura, I don't suppose I can just send you my laptop so you can do this for me? You may be able to make a living from doing this.

I have just managed to be able to play 4 tables when tiled whilst watching tv, but really want to increase this as per your previous AHK post.

My problem is, I feel practically computer illiterate when reading your guide.

Can you by any chance make an idiots step by step guide on exactly how to do this, or is that what the last post was & I am just too much of an idiot to get it.

Mate, you'd have to send it down south to South Africa.... .

Rage2100 and I are already working on the Dummies Guide to Multitabling (on Stars) - complete with pictures. We will try hard to make it portable to other sites. It will probably take us at least a week to produce a worthy thread, particularly as Rage probably isn't going to be in a coherent state over much of the weekend and needs to rewrite a bit of the code .

Originally Posted by Nakamura

Rage2100 and I are already working on the Dummies Guide to Multitabling (on Stars) - complete with pictures. We will try hard to make it portable to other sites. It will probably take us at least a week to produce a worthy thread, particularly as Rage probably isn't going to be in a coherent state over much of the weekend and needs to rewrite a bit of the code .

What are you trying to say?
Alcohol? Nah, never touch the stuff. Honest!

Seriously though, I have a few scripts that I've written for personal use, but they will need modifying so others can use them. It shouldn't be too much work, so hopefully there will be a thread in about a week or two, complete with code and pretty pictures.

No problem, firstly you need to make sure, under "Advanced Multi-table Options", you tick "Popup table whenever user action is required" in the PokerStars Lobby .

Done

Next, you may want to make the tables exactly the same size. I opened 20 play-money tables and used PlaceMint, but it was complicated and I can't remember the exact process. Basically you are going to have to figure out how to use PlaceMint or find an alternative program that can resize windows to a pre-determined size. Once it was all sorted I saved the layout as a custom layout.

I guess I'll just mess with this. I think I have my stacks exact, but I may be a hair off... Isn't there a pixel tolerance setting in the code to allow for a couple-pixel error?

Next you need AHK. You can find the link in my 2K post in the stickies. Copy Rage2100's code into a blank notepad document and save as Move_table.ahk. You will need to adjust the co-ords to suit your screen and table sizes. Then it's as simple as double clicking on the code, which should put a green "H" in the bottom right of your screen, and the spacebar should make things move around.

Done. I had this before, but couldn't figure out how the script chooses to put which tables where when moving them out of the stack. I hit space, it goes to the "left" stack, and hit space again on the table that now comes forward, and it goes to the "bottom left" stack, and when I hit space on the "left" stack table, instead of going back into stack, or going there after a fold (!), it goes to the "bottom left" stack. Not always, though, so I'm trying to determine the logic of the sequence. Does that make sense?

Basically, there isn't a short cut and you'll have to spend some time getting it right. Once it's sorted though, it works a treat.

So far, just the table ninja is a great help. Using the keyboard and mouse to do preset bet amounts is awesome, especially as a former gamer who's used to a WADS setup...

Thanks! Can't wait for the new thread!

Originally Posted by Nakamura

Rage2100 and I are already working on the Dummies Guide to Multitabling (on Stars) - complete with pictures.

SWEEEETT!

dontezuma, the tables don't have to be the exact same size, but the positions of them have to be close to the co-ordinates in the script. There is a tolerance that is set to 50 pixels by default, so the positions have to match to within 50 pixels. If not, the tables will seemingly move to random positions.

I will try and write another script that works in conjunction with the main script. This should allow you to size and move your table positions exactly. Hopefully, these co-ordinates can then be automatically used by the main script to move tables in and out of the stack.

Most helpful - already mentioned pop up table option, then also under View, click remember table positioning.
I'm kind of confused why you'd have to use another program to resize your tables and stuff. Pull up how many tables you want, size them manually. Place them where you want them. Click "remember table positioning". Click save layout and give it a name.
The only issue is say you save 8 tables like this, when you load the first 8 it will put them wherever you did, but if you ever have a 9th one active, it'll open it with the default size and position instead of fitting into your layout. So you might want to aim high and lay it out for more tables than you currently use, up to you.

Originally Posted by Kijjo

I'm kind of confused why you'd have to use another program to resize your tables and stuff. Pull up how many tables you want, size them manually. Place them where you want them. Click "remember table positioning". Click save layout and give it a name.

You can do it like this of course, but I think what people are referring to is getting the sizes and positions to match to the exact pixel. It's a pretty easy script to write, so I'll include it in case it's useful to anyone.

Originally Posted by Rage2100

dontezuma, the tables don't have to be the exact same size, but the positions of them have to be close to the co-ordinates in the script. There is a tolerance that is set to 50 pixels by default, so the positions have to match to within 50 pixels. If not, the tables will seemingly move to random positions.

I will try and write another script that works in conjunction with the main script. This should allow you to size and move your table positions exactly. Hopefully, these co-ordinates can then be automatically used by the main script to move tables in and out of the stack.

Awesome. So, here's the question:
If I assume that my Stack is in the top-left quadrant, and stack 2 is top right, and stack 3 is bottom right, is the script designed to take the top table in the stack and when you hit space, jump it to stack2, and then if you hit space on the main stack again, take THAT table and put it in stack 3 if there's already a table in stack 2?

Then, when I hit space on the stack2 table, it should go back to stack 1, right? should all the "side stacks" go back to the main stack when you hit space on them?

Originally Posted by dontezuma

Originally Posted by Rage2100

dontezuma, the tables don't have to be the exact same size, but the positions of them have to be close to the co-ordinates in the script. There is a tolerance that is set to 50 pixels by default, so the positions have to match to within 50 pixels. If not, the tables will seemingly move to random positions.

I will try and write another script that works in conjunction with the main script. This should allow you to size and move your table positions exactly. Hopefully, these co-ordinates can then be automatically used by the main script to move tables in and out of the stack.

Awesome. So, here's the question:
If I assume that my Stack is in the top-left quadrant, and stack 2 is top right, and stack 3 is bottom right, is the script designed to take the top table in the stack and when you hit space, jump it to stack2, and then if you hit space on the main stack again, take THAT table and put it in stack 3 if there's already a table in stack 2?

Then, when I hit space on the stack2 table, it should go back to stack 1, right? should all the "side stacks" go back to the main stack when you hit space on them?

Yes, this is exactly what it does.

I guess I just have to get used to stacking and not seeing the action on the buried tables. I'm used to tiling, so I think it'll take some getting used to.

Thanks for the script. I've got it set up, but I have to tweak and get used to it now. Cheers!

@Nakamura:

So, can you describe the flow on the stacked table system? I watched the video, but it was hard to understand what you were doing exactly. Are you folding hands as they come up and side-stacking hands you want to play, so that they're off to the side when it's your action? What's your criteria for when you side stack? (You may be covering this in your multi-tabling thread coming up, and if so, never mind, I'll wait.)

I can see the benefit, but I'm guessing it'll just take a lot of getting used to. How many side stacks do you run? 2? 3? I can see having the top left be the main stack and bottom-left and top- and bottom-right all being your side stacks. I have a wide-screen monitor, so I can run 4 stacks with little overlap.

Originally Posted by Kijjo

I'm kind of confused why you'd have to use another program to resize your tables and stuff. Pull up how many tables you want, size them manually. Place them where you want them. Click "remember table positioning". Click save layout and give it a name.

As Rage said it's about lining things up perfectly. It can actually be very distracting if the tables don't line up perfectly.

Originally Posted by dontezuma

Awesome. So, here's the question:
If I assume that my Stack is in the top-left quadrant, and stack 2 is top right, and stack 3 is bottom right, is the script designed to take the top table in the stack and when you hit space, jump it to stack2, and then if you hit space on the main stack again, take THAT table and put it in stack 3 if there's already a table in stack 2?

Then, when I hit space on the stack2 table, it should go back to stack 1, right? should all the "side stacks" go back to the main stack when you hit space on them?

Yes, you only have to be mousing over the table and it will jump in exactly the manner you described.

Let's say the main stack is in the top left, slot 1 is in the top right, slot 2 is in the bottom right and slot 3 is in the bottom left. When you hit space on the table in slot 3 it will actually jump straight back into the main stack in the top left. They will only go back into the main stack when you click the SpaceBar while you are mousing over that particular table.[/quote]

Got it. I think I understand now, and just need to mess with the AHK and stuff to make sure it works, and that the side-stacked tables always go back to the main stack, which I think for some reason they weren't doing alst time I tried it.

Thanks to both of you.

Originally Posted by dontezuma

Got it. I think I understand now, and just need to mess with the AHK and stuff to make sure it works, and that the side-stacked tables always go back to the main stack, which I think for some reason they weren't doing alst time I tried it.

Thanks to both of you.

Pretty much. You could try using several open versions of notepad to test out whether the stack works or not. Otherwise just use play money tables.

Be aware that if you are eliminated on a table and close the table outside of the main-stack, the counter sometimes gets messed up. You just need to reload the script, which you can do by right-clicking on the H symbol in the taskbar. Coincidently, you can also suspend the script it if you need to type something quick.

Oh, good to know. Those little bugs are better to avoid. And the suspend feature was something that it took me a minute or so to figure out. I was trying to type something in the chat window, and I placed a bet. With 8-5off no less! LOL.

Originally Posted by dontezuma

Oh, good to know. Those little bugs are better to avoid. And the suspend feature was something that it took me a minute or so to figure out. I was trying to type something in the chat window, and I placed a bet. With 8-5off no less! LOL.

The solution is perhaps to use a more sensible key i.e. one that you don't normally use when typing. When Rage and I do this we will try to include a range of options. We selected the SpaceBar since it's the easiest key to find and when you are 10-tabling you usually don't have time to write things in the chat-box or make notes.

Yeah, I consider it a lesson learned, and I don't bother with the chat usually, but someone asked me about the fish in my avatar, blah blah blah.

You guys are awesome. Spacebar and the mouse-over-for-active in table ninja are great! I freaked my friends out when I showed them the setup, and that was just 6 tiled tables. I can't wait to jack it up to ten!

Originally Posted by Nakamura

Be aware that if you are eliminated on a table and close the table outside of the main-stack, the counter sometimes gets messed up.

If you move your mouse over the table you've been eliminated from and press the Escape key, the table will close and the counter will be updated.

This is what you call multi-tabling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f5IUP-ELzA

Apparently, this guy turned $100 into $10k in 14 days doing this.

Originally Posted by dontezuma

@Nakamura:

So, can you describe the flow on the stacked table system? I watched the video, but it was hard to understand what you were doing exactly. Are you folding hands as they come up and side-stacking hands you want to play, so that they're off to the side when it's your action? What's your criteria for when you side stack? (You may be covering this in your multi-tabling thread coming up, and if so, never mind, I'll wait.)

I can see the benefit, but I'm guessing it'll just take a lot of getting used to. How many side stacks do you run? 2? 3? I can see having the top left be the main stack and bottom-left and top- and bottom-right all being your side stacks. I have a wide-screen monitor, so I can run 4 stacks with little overlap.

Sorry, I missed this thread.

I'm sorry the video is unclear but I'm on a pretty restrictive broadband deal and had to upload a small video.

Generally, the hands I think I'm going to continue playing are moved into the side slots so I can remember my actions (not actually to watch the action). I want to remember whether I raised or called. It helps me to remember when I move the table out of the main stack. If I'm getting a free-roll from the blinds I'll normally just leave it in the main stack, unless I flop something I want to play. In the end it's all pretty organic and you'll no doubt develop something you're comfortable with.

I used to run one main stack and 3 (overlapping) slots on my 14" laptop screen. Since making the video, I have acquired a 23" screen, although the setup remains the same I'm operating with no overlap. Three slots is sufficient when 16-20 tabling DON as you are playing so few hands that require further action. I'm fairly confident that 10-tabling normal SNGs, this would be enough slots. You may need more slots if you play more than 10 tables. Again, this is something you'll need to work out for yourself. I hope that helps

@ NAK,

Awesome, thanks!

@ Rage - good tip about the esc key. I didn't know that...

I don't know about multi-tabling ...

... but I vote Gator's avatar the best of all time. Wow!