Push in the dark?

icarus439 is tight passive, certainly knows enough not to GAMBooL here and take the lock on 2nd place.

Table '11474137 1' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: icarus439 (2865 in chips)
Seat 3: Bobby Gz (850 in chips)
Seat 7: HenryFnord (9785 in chips)
icarus439: posts the ante 25
Bobby Gz: posts the ante 25
HenryFnord: posts the ante 25
HenryFnord: posts small blind 200
icarus439: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HenryFnord [two cards]
Bobby Gz: folds
HenryFnord: raises 9360 to 9760 and is all-in

yes, I think that is an easy push.

with 3rd place blinding out this orbit, a smart tight player might even fold KK/AK here if the prize pool difference from 3rd to 2nd isn't much smaller thant he difference from 1st to 2nd.

clear push, doubling him up isn't bad, you'll beat tight passive HU anyway.

Remeber Kido (sp?) Pham in the WPT - they were three handed, David Pham was on the button and didn't have enough to cover the BB next hand. He folds, Mortensen (who has Kido out chipped maybe 4-1) sets Kido in with A5o, Kido wakes up with TT and calls. He doubled and gave himself a much better shot to win, but a year later I still can't decide if I like the play.

Knowing what we know (that you'll make this play with any two) what does he need to call? I think anything under TT is a fold? But even TT/JJ...QQ I'm feeling a little ill running against an over.

no way man, the way big tournies pay out, if Pham is flipping for his life next hand, im folding my house.

Yeah I think it was about a 200K difference between third and second... wild.

for 200k, id also fold a car and a few of my kids.

I think the payout difference could be a significant factor, however I also think that since icarus was tight passive, you don't need such a large raise to drive him out, but alternatively, you can get away if he does randomly have a monster.

(This mirrors my comment in your SnG thread).

If I open for something like 1000 or 1200, do you think he has a wider call or re-raise range?

Only slightly. It's still a huge portion of his stack, and he's going to be just about as hesitant dropping that low as dropping out completely. I think that the small amount of folding equity you give up is more than compensated by the amount of chips you save when he has a hand. Plus, as you said, icarus was tight/passive. I think his calling range is pretty narrow here anyway.

Originally Posted by Fnord

If I open for something like 1000 or 1200, do you think he has a wider call or re-raise range?

I don't think he's getting enough chips involved to bring him within double-up range of Bobby until after bobby is eliminated. Wouldn't be suprised if he folded AK/JJ/QQ right there. And he'd make the same fold for half his stack i bet.

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

Only slightly. It's still a huge portion of his stack, and he's going to be just about as hesitant dropping that low as dropping out completely. I think that the small amount of folding equity you give up is more than compensated by the amount of chips you save when he has a hand. Plus, as you said, icarus was tight/passive. I think his calling range is pretty narrow here anyway.

so ur willing to raise to 1200, and then fold if the 2nd stack goes all in? Ur getting like 2:1 on the call!

Originally Posted by vqchuang

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

Only slightly. It's still a huge portion of his stack, and he's going to be just about as hesitant dropping that low as dropping out completely. I think that the small amount of folding equity you give up is more than compensated by the amount of chips you save when he has a hand. Plus, as you said, icarus was tight/passive. I think his calling range is pretty narrow here anyway.

so ur willing to raise to 1200, and then fold if the 2nd stack goes all in? Ur getting like 2:1 on the call!

Given the chip stacks, yes, I would. There are places in tourneys where it's worth ignoring the odds to keep yourself in a dominating position and/or to keep yourself in.

ok just making sure, I think its a valid play, but I like the extra FE in making the guy play for his entier stack.

I also like the message it sends. "I have the big stack and will play pre-flop poker for all your chips." The next 2 orbits my BB was folded to me.

Originally Posted by Fnord

I also like the message it sends. "I have the big stack and will play pre-flop poker for all your chips." The next 2 orbits my BB was folded to me.

I'll agree that this is an added benefit. I'm not sure that you wouldn't get the same effect from standard raises, however. I base that quite simply on the fact that I am rarely playing preflop poker when I have a stack, yet in positions like this it is routine for me to have my BB folded to me.

Really, the key is that they see you as an aggro player willing to mix it up - however you shove that image down their throat, doing so is far better than not.

Game #940546842 (Level VII, Game #7) - 150/300 No Limit Texas Hold'em -
2005/08/21-00:58:02.6 (CST)
Table "Santa Isabel" ($50 tournament) -- Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: zqqz00 (2,310.00 in chips)
Seat 2: ovenmitts (340.00 in chips)
Seat 7: amlove (5,300.00 in chips)
Seat 8: HaiJake33 (2,050.00 in chips)
ovenmitts: Post Small Blind (150)
amlove : Post Big Blind (300)
Dealing...
Dealt to amlove [ 3d ]
Dealt to amlove [ 2c ]
HaiJake33: Call (300)
zqqz00 : Fold
ovenmitts: Fold
amlove : Raise (5,000)
HaiJake33: Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 750 | zqqz00 didn't bet (folded)
ovenmitts lost 150 (folded)
amlove bet 5,300, collected 5,750, net +450 (showed hand) [ 3d 2c ]
HaiJake33 lost 300 (folded)

same idea.
good play.

ALthough, Id be wary of UTG Limpers. I dont like them.