sharkscope banned by pokerstars

Just a heads up to everyone, this went into effect November 4th. no searching sharkscope while playing

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/

Originally Posted by fjuanl

Just a heads up to everyone, this went into effect November 4th. no searching sharkscope while playing

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/

I see pokerstove is banned from opening as well. This is all a bit annoying really as I often have the lobby open while making use of pokerstove to analyse my games afterwards.

I can't see how checking someone's ROI gives you any idea as to how they play.

Pokerstove is listed under this question:

Can you give me some examples of acceptable tools and services ?

Originally Posted by Thunder

I can't see how checking someone's ROI gives you any idea as to how they play.

It gives you an idea of the quality of the player. Part of the issue certainly is players complaining about other players mentioning their ROI in the chatbox.

Hmm, I wonder how they tell. Its one thing to detect programs running, but here they'd need to detect a page being searched in your web browser.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Hmm, I wonder how they tell. Its one thing to detect programs running, but here they'd need to detect a page being searched in your web browser.

It kinda feels like Big Brother is watching you.

From what I read in my poker mag, most poker sites drop a form of spyware on your PC (and it's in their Ts & Cs) and they monitor everything that is open. They can even tell if MSN is open.

I agree about banning slating someone in chat about their ROI but ROI itself doesn't say how they play - unlike PT.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Hmm, I wonder how they tell. Its one thing to detect programs running, but here they'd need to detect a page being searched in your web browser.

It seems they can do anything these days:
http://news.parttimepoker.com/2007/0...rkscope-users/

Yeah, but telling that you have a web browser open, and telling what page you're on are two different things.

I'm no expert on that kind of thing, maybe its not a big deal, would be interested though.

so they know i'm looking at porn while playing

Yes. As does your ISP. However your ISP can scour your PC and view anything on it. Anything.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Yeah, but telling that you have a web browser open, and telling what page you're on are two different things.

I'm no expert on that kind of thing, maybe its not a big deal, would be interested though.

Actually, if they have enough access to see what applications you are running, it would be comparatively easy to sniff IP traffic. They wouldn't necessarily see that you had it loaded in the browser, but as soon as you communicate with the site, there are packets of data going back and forth between your computer and your ISP, all of which would be visible to any other application on your system (even without them seeing what apps are running).

The easiest project in my network security class as a grad student was programming just such a sniffer.

OPR still works FWIW but they don't do < 36 for stars

Hmm, interesting. I never looked into that kind of stuff. Thanks Jeffrey.

I applaud their regulation of most these programs while running Pokerstars and especially bots but I really enjoy watching the rise and fall of my "stock" on Sharkscope. Do you guys really think we should no longer access our stats from the computer the Pokerstars client is on since it seems to be listed under the "cannot access at anytime" list ?

Originally Posted by Thunder

Yes. As does your ISP. However your ISP can scour your PC and view anything on it. Anything.

This isn't true.

In fact, pokerstars has the potential to do this far more than your ISP does since you've installed their software on your PC. Your isp would have to hack into your machine just like anyone else on the internet would. Your ISP can only view what internet traffic is coming in and going out from your machine, they can't "scour" around your machine.

And yes pokerstars could tell what sites you're visiting if they wanted. It's not that hard to write software that'll do that.

I think this is a great development. Perhaps this will put an end to those morans who berate the fish saying, "OMG, can't believe you're such a DONK, you've lost $5k playing this game, blah blah blah".

also maybe the donks won't know they lost 5k

Originally Posted by ghem67

Do you guys really think we should no longer access our stats from the computer the Pokerstars client is on since it seems to be listed under the "cannot access at anytime" list ?

Seems quite cleat that it's only prohibited while the client is running.



Dozer, I can only go off what I have read so no idea either way. Maybe it's a UK only thing but I just checked the mag again and it relates to the UK market so, who knows?

It says Sharkscope falls under the "The following are examples of tools and services which are prohibited at all times?" category. They have a different category for programs like SnGWiz that can be used when not in gameplay.

I think pokerstars official line on this is harvesting result information from games you did not play in is a form of cheating. Programs like HM and PT are legal since you are only using information from games you have actually taken part in. Unfortunately I think this means you will no be able to surf SharkScope to check out your own (or other people's) stats at any time.

I received an email stating it is banned whilst the client is open. The link in the OP bans it all the time. That must be a mistake, surely?

It isn't explicit in saying it is banned at all times while the game lobby is open, or simply banned on your PC. I guess I'll see if I get a warning before I stop using it.

On the Sharkscope site they said that Stars could detect you using them if the Stars client is open. So if it's not, you should be fine - Stars shouldn't care that you check your stats (you should be keeping better records yourself anyways).
What I don't understand is Star Tracker is on the approved list and seems to give you the same time of info, only MORE of it??? And Stars doesn't just approve of it, they ADVERTISE on their site?

Some examples of tools and services which are prohibited only while PokerStars is running are:

1. Insight Poker Hound
2. PokerStrategy Elephant
3. PokerStrategy ICM Trainer
4. SAGE Decision Calculator
5. SharkScope
6. Sit n’ Go End Game Tools
7. SitnGo Wizard
8. SNG Power Tools
9. Spade ICM
10. STT Analyzer by PokerSoftwareTools

This list was last updated November 4th 2008

So you can use sharkscope in case the client is not open

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Yeah, but telling that you have a web browser open, and telling what page you're on are two different things.

I'm no expert on that kind of thing, maybe its not a big deal, would be interested though.

Actually, if they have enough access to see what applications you are running, it would be comparatively easy to sniff IP traffic. They wouldn't necessarily see that you had it loaded in the browser, but as soon as you communicate with the site, there are packets of data going back and forth between your computer and your ISP, all of which would be visible to any other application on your system (even without them seeing what apps are running).

The easiest project in my network security class as a grad student was programming just such a sniffer.

What I assume they are doing is simply examining the title bar of the browser, it is easily available via any API that gives you the process info (it is exactly the same info that appears in the process viewer)

Originally Posted by Kijjo

What I don't understand is Star Tracker is on the approved list and seems to give you the same time of info, only MORE of it??? And Stars doesn't just approve of it, they ADVERTISE on their site?

There seems to be a lot of friction between Poker Stars and Sharkscope. According to the latest on the Sharkscope website, they are already implementing something to get around the Poker Stars ban.

This is war!

However, we understand that some users will wish to continue playing on PokerStars therefore you have the following options to avoid detection:

1. Use the SharkScope HUD - This product now supports PokerStars and has been designed with your privacy in mind. If you launch PokerStars from the HUD (and only if you launch it from the HUD) and keep the HUD open, Pokerstars will not be able to detect you using the HUD or visiting the SharkScope.com website.
2. Use SharkScope.com on a computer other than the one you have the PokerStars client running on.
3. Only use SharkScope.com when the PokerStars client is not open.
4. We are in the process of implementing another option for non premium subscribers which should be available shortly.

So just shut down pokerstars, search the names you want, close sharkscope and reopen pokerstars... they can only tell if they are running at the same time.

Tj

Originally Posted by Outlaw

So just shut down PokerStars, search the names you want, close sharkscope and reopen PokerStars... they can only tell if they are running at the same time.

I think this could be -EV.

Curiously I've had SS open a few times while using pokerstars and I have not received a wrap on the knuckles yet. I never search SS while PS is open, so maybe that has something to do with it?

Originally Posted by flomo

so they know i'm looking at porn while playing

LMAO
Nice avatar!!
Peace,
Flow

Originally Posted by Thunder

Yes. As does your ISP. However your ISP can scour your PC and view anything on it. Anything.

True [ ]

I had just found this thread. I have grave concerns.

Pokerstove prohibited while playing? WTF? First off, if their client is scouring my machine to see what else is running, they are spying on me and may be subject to action I would think... simply I could rename the Pokerstove.exe file something else to avoid detection, so it shouldn't be a big deal, but as a person who values my privacy and my pokerstove, I'm highly disturbed by this.

As shortly ago as last night, while playing FR< I had the stove open and stars, using them both at the same time, with no consequences.

I'm very curious to see where this goes.

quoted from pokerstars.com

Some examples of tools and services which are prohibited only while PokerStars is running are:

1. Insight Poker Hound
2. PokerStrategy ICM Trainer
3. SAGE Decision Calculator
4. SharkScope (including SharkScope HUD)
5. Sit n’ Go End Game Tools
6. SitnGo Wizard
7. SNG Power Tools
8. Spade ICM
9. STT Analyzer by PokerSoftwareTools

[ ] poker stove

monty u actually use stove WHILE playing? I think I'd try to get out of that habit.
I too have continued using sharkscope to select sngs - then after I'm logged into the games I want I close the window, no need to sharkscope individuals, there's another program on their good list that works just as well

Originally Posted by Kijjo

monty u actually use stove WHILE playing? I think I'd try to get out of that habit.
I too have continued using sharkscope to select sngs - then after I'm logged into the games I want I close the window, no need to sharkscope individuals, there's another program on their good list that works just as well

The following are examples of tools and services which are permitted:

Calculatem Pro
Coach Rounder
Draw Poker Source
FreePokerDB (aka FPDB)
GameTime+
Holdem Advantage
Hold’em Cockpit
Holdem Genius
Holdem Indicator
Holdem Manager
Holdem Partner
Holdem Radar
Holdem Ranger (including RealTime HUD)
NotesNL
Omaha Indicator
Omaha Poker Coach
Paragon Poker Pal
Poker Academy Prospector
PokerAce HUD
Pokerbility
Poker Buddy
Poker Butler
Poker Calculator Pro (aka Poker Pro 2007 by PokerProLabs)
Poker Copilot
PokerEval (Registered Version Only)
Poker EV
Poker Evolver
PokerGrapher
PokerHands
Poker Indicator
Poker Juggernaut
PokerKant
PokerObserver HUD
Poker Office
Poker Potjie
Poker Sharpener
Poker Sidekick
Poker Sniffer
Poker-Spy
PokerStat
Poker Stove
PokerStrategy Elephant
PokerStrategy Equilator
PokerTracker (including TableTracker)
Poker Vitals
Poker Weapon
Poker Wingman
Pot Odd Rechner
PPA Poker Calculator
Sharktoolz Bankroll Manager
Sharktoolz Poker-Reader
SmartBuddy
Star Tracker
Stud Inspector v1
Table Shark
Telescope by SpadeIt
Texas Calculatem
ThePokerDB
Tournament Indicator
Tournament Shark
Tournament Updater
This list was last updated November 7th 2008.

And in response, yes I use pokerstove while playing. I do it to determine if I am ahead enough to call. Why would that be a problem? And why wouldn't I use it?

I just found this thread. I have had PS and sharkscope open at the same time recently, and havent gotten in trouble for it. But now I guess I will likely have to stop that practice

Here is good article on spyware in your poker client, even if you dont understand all the technical stuff:

http://www.codingthewheel.com/archiv...poker-client-1

There are also some pretty interesting articles on bot building on the site.

Some reasons you should get out of the habit of using pokerstove WHILE playing are:
- it slows u down
- u probably think about %'s more than player profiling (a guess)
- u should train yourself to be able to guestimate within a reasonable margin to figure out how far ahead/behind u are
- what will u do when u win that WSOP seat, carry your laptop to the table with u?