SNG - 9 player vs 18 player

I pretty much know the strategy for 9 player SNG. Of course with any type of tourney, you have to play good solid poker. But should strategy change when you play an 18 player SNG? I have never participated in one yet i've played hundreds of the 9 player ones and have been relatively successfull overall. Any suggestions??

I would argue not Mathman. Essentially, just play good solid poker on the table you are at and then, if/when/ it narrows down to one table, play that accordingly.

Yes and no.....the overall strategy is basically the same, however in a two-table SnG you must be able to change gears from tight to loose...back to tight again. Two-tables are unique because you start out playing a full table, then eventually have to play short handed....then back to a full table again...then short handed with significant sized stacks and generally higher blinds (2-tables take longer)
The potential ROI is higher for the same investment, and they give you a lot of practice in many aspects of the game....Changing gears, short stack play, large stack play, short handed play, and hopefully heads up play. They are really a good starting point for someone who wants to become a MTT player, although MTTs have thier own unique set of challenges...two table SnGs are a good starting point.

I guess my biggest concern is allowing players in an 18 player to build large stacks. In a nine player, if you play tight and allow say 2 or even 3 players to build large stacks, you still have a good chance at money even with a below average stack. But with 18 player, you could allow 5 or even 6 players to build large stacks and it would be tougher to come back and get in the money if you aren't getting the cards.
Also, with a 9 player, i usually play for 3rd place and then if i succeed i go for the win because of the way the pay percentages are set up (go for the win means loosen up considerable and attempt to double up if i am behind). But with 18-player, the pay percents increase in equal intervals, so it seems you should not alter your game.

generally, the people who build big stacks earlier in the tournament don't make it to the end. why?

18 man tourney is 2x more than 9 man tourney. which means 2x more fish, maniacs, calling stations, etc. generally, in the beginning of the tourney, you always have somebody crazy going all in on TPTK and a calling station calling him down. FOR THE MOST PART, the players who are willing to take high risks - do build bigger stacks in the beginning of the tournament. BUT, due to their high risk taking nature, they tend to slowly (or very quickly sometimes...) lose their big stack later in the tournament (mainly when the blinds start to get high and players start switching gears).

i wouldn't worry too much about players having bigger stacks than you at the final table. due to my conservative play during the beginning of the tourney, i am almost always sitting at around 2-3k when i reach the final table (with two or three 5-7k stacks around me). the bigger the stack, the more they have to lose (and suprisingly the weaker they play for the most part).

a tatic that i have found very useful with dealing with big stacks late in the tourney:

this is where the art of inducing bluffs becomes important. big stacks (especially the personalities that tend to accumlate big stacks early in the tournament) tend to HATE people who "undermine their authority". if you've been caught trying to steal blinds during your time at the final table, use the same betting pattern that you used previously when you're up against the chip leader and holding the nuts. you can almost always induce them to go all in trying to bluff you out of the pot.

also, when it comes down to the bubble, you should really turn up the heat against the bigger stacks. most of them are trying to sit out until the smaller stacks kill each other - take advantage of this!!!

i haven't noticed much of that...

bigger stacks waiting for the smaller stacks to kill each other?
isn't it the opposite usually..

yeah i agree with ender, the big stacks bully the smaller ones on the bubble cause the small stacks don't want to bust out hoping someone else gets unlucky or takes a chance

Originally Posted by ender555

i haven't noticed much of that...

bigger stacks waiting for the smaller stacks to kill each other?
isn't it the opposite usually..

well....different things happen in different buy ins? i'm talking in particular to $10-20 SnGs. Most of the time, the big stacks will rarely bluff in the fear that another big stack may call their bluff and knock them out before one of the smaller stacks get knocked out. this senario happens mostly when there are 3 big stacks of about the same size and 2-3 small stacks.

i do agree that for the most part big stacks do bully small stacks around, but when a small stack is over half of their stack.....they tend to be more timid than aggressive.

anyway....was just trying to show an example that i tend to see alot...nothing 100%

I say loosen up a little when you're at first shorthanded, try to get yourself up to 3.5-4k so you can be threatening at the final table, but be quick to tighten up when back at a full ring.

The changing nature of the game is key. When the 2 tables join to form a full table again, you need to go back to playing tight, BUT it's a whole different kettle of fish now. The average stack is now double when you started but the blinds are usually 5 to 10 times the original starting blinds. So, people go out quickly. In fact they start dropping like flies. As long as you have even an average stack, you can fold your way to the bubble. Then a couple of steals or a judicious double up and you're ITM

Originally Posted by DBL0SVN

The changing nature of the game is key. When the 2 tables join to form a full table again, you need to go back to playing tight, BUT it's a whole different kettle of fish now. The average stack is now double when you started but the blinds are usually 5 to 10 times the original starting blinds. So, people go out quickly. In fact they start dropping like flies. As long as you have even an average stack, you can fold your way to the bubble. Then a couple of steals or a judicious double up and you're ITM

oohhhhhhhh -- that makes sense. I've done poorly with the 2 table SNG's. Thanks, that makes big sense. I've usually been one of the flies, trying to grow my stack and likely playing too loose.

Originally Posted by Variable

generally, the people who build big stacks earlier in the tournament don't make it to the end. why?

18 man tourney is 2x more than 9 man tourney. which means 2x more fish, maniacs, calling stations, etc. generally, in the beginning of the tourney, you always have somebody crazy going all in on TPTK and a calling station calling him down. FOR THE MOST PART, the players who are willing to take high risks - do build bigger stacks in the beginning of the tournament. BUT, due to their high risk taking nature, they tend to slowly (or very quickly sometimes...) lose their big stack later in the tournament (mainly when the blinds start to get high and players start switching gears).

!!!

Yeah thats my favorite kind of table, when there is one maniac who eliminates 3 or 4 players and then proceedes to eliminate himself, leaving the tight players for easy pickins.

Yah, 2table 20$ sngs are now my drug of choice. Truthfully I dont get too wild when my original table is short handed. I do open up some, and look for oputunities here, however I feel that the blinds are too small to steal, so its mostly post flop play. If you dont get hands to work with here, thats fine, just try and maintain that stack at about ~2k+ for the FT.

This is where you HAVE to tighten up, people get overjoyed because they are at the 'final table' (come on people.. its a two table sng...) and they begin to play way too loose. This is where you are looking to double up, grab a hand and work some magic, but dont play loose like them, all that will do is insure a quick bust. If you can manage to double here you are golden, just coast on into the money, looking for good oppurtunities on the way. Oh, and if you are a middle stack, often the big stacks will kind of sit back, be careful not to screw yourself, but make sure not to let small stacks keep thier bb, or see flops.