Easy KK preflop question

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04-22-2008, 03:18 PM
Silly String

Easy KK preflop question

CO is Laggro but not a spewtard, very positionally aware and runs 27/23ish
BU is straight forward TAG 16/12/4 over about 100 hands.

PokerStars 6max 100NL
CO has 120BB
BU has 110BB
I cover both in BB
PREFLOP:
Folded to CO who raises $3, BU 3bets to $11, SB folds, BB ??

What is the best way to maximize value here? Standard 4bet looks awfully strong, push looks strong but could be AK, so is a min 4bet here spewy? Calling seems suicidal vs. a Laggro CO who is going to play a wide range with those preflop odds.
I'm afraid I just need to standard 4bet and watch everyone fold. What do you do?
04-22-2008, 03:29 PM
bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK
04-22-2008, 03:32 PM
reprisal

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

Min 4-bet would be asking for tons of trouble. Shoving isn't terrible, but just re-resteal ;p
04-22-2008, 03:40 PM
thizzSantaCruz

you only have one option; raise. Anywhere from a small raise to a push is good
04-22-2008, 06:19 PM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by reprisal

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

Min 4-bet would be asking for tons of trouble. Shoving isn't terrible, but just re-resteal ;p

where exactly did i say to min-4bet?
04-22-2008, 06:24 PM
ihategnomes

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

where exactly did i say to min-4bet?

You didn't. OP did and the poster just sorta blurred it all together.
04-22-2008, 06:39 PM
EzDuzIt

just shove as long as you arent a total nit people tend to look you up with stuff like JJ here putting you on AK
04-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Fnord

Between the money depth and your relative position, I really hate a call here. 4-town.
04-22-2008, 07:12 PM
Roel

Yah shove all day, that way it looks much more like AK. But i am gonna commit anyday preflop here.

Besides if you just call an A is gonna flop like 85% of the time...
04-22-2008, 08:47 PM
meeloche

I would have a standard play with your premium hand range in this spot. For me its always to 4bet. You shouldn't be playing AA, QQ or AK any different than KK here.
04-22-2008, 09:28 PM
reprisal

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

where exactly did i say to min-4bet?

Ya, only OP mentioned min 4-bet, was just including your good advice as one of the many reasons why the min-bet would be terrible.
04-22-2008, 09:41 PM
Silly String

Meeloche, that is exactly what I am trying to decide on.
I usually std 4bet here(like $32), but I've been getting a lot of folds lately when I 4bet cold.
I can't cold call this, IMO, unless the 3bettor makes it a bigger than std 3bet and the CO is tighter.
Min 4betting wouldn't seem to work b/c it allows AK/AQ to catch on the cheap. Also by min 4betting mean raising to $22, not that it matters.
So that leaves me with shoving & repping AK. I don't know if that works, but that is why I was asking your opinions.
Actually that is what I did was shove to rep AK and it folded the table.
04-22-2008, 11:21 PM
bode

is it me or are people shoving big hands alot more trying to rep AK these days.
04-22-2008, 11:35 PM
nutsinho

4bet it and dont forget to 4bet bluff
04-23-2008, 01:02 AM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly String

I've been getting a lot of folds lately when I 4bet cold.

The solution to this problem of not getting enough action in certain spots is to kick up your bluff frequency a bit there.
04-23-2008, 06:57 AM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly String

I've been getting a lot of folds lately when I 4bet cold.

The solution to this problem of not getting enough action in certain spots is to kick up your bluff frequency a bit there.

this and how many times does this situation really come up? i know its not a great spot, but it cant come up THAT often.
04-23-2008, 07:43 AM
Renton

insta click-it-back

(srs)
04-23-2008, 11:42 AM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

ugly logic, you should expect a greater return than 14bb when u have KK acting after a raise/reraise.
04-23-2008, 12:50 PM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

ugly logic, you should expect a greater return than 14bb when u have KK acting after a raise/reraise.

right, its not the ideal scenario, but with the money in the pot already picking it up pre isnt a huge letdown either.
04-23-2008, 04:49 PM
Halv

I shove this. I don't really see myself cold 4-bet bluffing a 16/12 nit ever, so I'm just jamming to rep/balance with when I do it with AK.