QJo sb dump?

button is among the two or three toughest full ring regs on this site right now. 2x is his standard open from late position.
he's 19-15-6 with high cbet/barrel tendencies.
We've played a bunch HU starting tables the last month and he's up a couple of stacks.
big blind is a small stakes reg from way back.

just dump it pre?
as played flop donk or checkraise?

$50 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (50) 100bb
UTG+1 (40) 80bb
MP1 (89) 179bb
MP2 (34) 69bb
CO (16) 32bb
BTN (157) 314bb
daven (SB) (51) 102bb
BB (50) 100bb

Blinds: 0/1

Pre-Flop: (1, 8 players) daven is SB :qh: :jc:
5 folds, BTN raises to 1, daven calls 1, BB calls 1

Flop: :qs: :9c: :3h: (3, 3 players)
it's my turn...

why not c/c flop, especially if he likes to barrel

Do you want to donk/ or c/r just because its multiway? Usually c/c seems obvious :/ Hrmm

I dont know how you can do anything but call pre either.

pre i was debating folding vs calling. Flop, yeah, check makes more sense than donk cos he's going to cbet about 100%. Check-raising doesn't work as a bluff, and i don't see it getting a lot of value either.
Cool. Check-call cos abc makes more sense than i sometimes give it credit for
cheers

It's not even ABC, it's exploiting his tendencies. If he cbets too much this is a great hand to be c/cing with imo.

check call flop, HU to the turn which is the ace of diamonds - plan?

if he barrels a lot it's a great card to c/c

you'll have to c/decide river but play some poker man, it's fun.

What do you think he's barrelling in this situation? Is it loads of Ax? Enough so that it makes calling with QJ behind his continuing range? Does that mean that you should add more good Ax type hands to your sb vs btn calling range?

If you think he's barrelling loads of Ax, a few other PPs you beat like Q9+, sets and straight draws then I dunno stove it and see :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

if he barrels a lot it's a great card to c/c

you'll have to c/decide river but play some poker man, it's fun.

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I think this is the right line too, wanted some input though - cheers!
and, ja, river came a blank jack and he hit his KT straight while i hit my two pair, it was plenty fun ;)

What was his river sizing? Did he bet turn?

i probably fold preflop because i suck postflop and am easily dominated. flop i would be C/C

QJo has to be a defend vs a likely wide btn opener, surely, as long as bb isn't a habitual squeezer?

Chk/call seems fine against this guy post flop and I can't think of a good reason to c/r. Interesting that you think villain is a tough reg though - cbetting and barrelling this board 3-way for anything other than value seems bad to me when the flop smacks into both blinds' defending range. Just seems like he's the classic bad reg whose barrelling range is weighted towards air.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rpm

i probably fold preflop because i suck postflop and am easily dominated. flop i would be C/C

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you're actually easily dominating a wide btn opener's range

If he's on the looser side on the button, raise him. Call is ok, now c/c the flop and reevaluate turn, probably c/f if he continues on hard. Feels like a sucky line but depends a lot on your history and it's the disadvantage of being in the SB. Sometimes I lay this down preflop if the guy is tight on the button too, or if I heavily expect him to play back at me when I 3bet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackvance

If he's on the looser side on the button, raise him.

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Why?

SB I'd 3bet or fold given BB is a reg, I'd defend QJo from the BB though. On the flop maybe he'll cbet but there's no way he's barelling this given it's 3 to the flop and this board is decent for ours and BB's defending range. No matter how we play this we're not going to make a lot of money here.

THis is a fine call pre, as long as BB isn't a spazz squeezer. Even if BB is a reg I'm fine calling this, only worried about getting blown off my call most of the time.

I am c/c two streets (can't think of any card I would fold to a turn barrel - K sort of sucks, but prob still peeling it), and re-evaluate river.

Not sure if you mentioned it but what is btn's late position steal %?

Also raising anywhere post flop with this hand is overkill, unless the run out is specifically Q/J or J/Q turn river.

Pre should at least be a call. Steal % on btn is pretty important stat here, but we should be calling more in general if villain is opening 2x. If BB squeezes often then I'd opt to 3b. Flop I'd just x/c

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

What was his river sizing? Did he bet turn?

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he bet 2/3 pot on turn
3/4 pot on river

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffey24

THis is a fine call pre, as long as BB isn't a spazz squeezer. Even if BB is a reg I'm fine calling this, only worried about getting blown off my call most of the time.

I am c/c two streets (can't think of any card I would fold to a turn barrel - K sort of sucks, but prob still peeling it), and re-evaluate river.

Not sure if you mentioned it but what is btn's late position steal %?

Also raising anywhere post flop with this hand is overkill, unless the run out is specifically Q/J or J/Q turn river.

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bb was a winning reg up to 200nl on the old ftp, dunno where he was playing until ftp reopened. He didn't/doesn't squeeze much at all though.

steal is 55%, (once i filter to 6 or more players), co 30, bu 80, sb 50

I mean river could be a fold if I'm playing well and thinking clearly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

I mean river could be a fold if I'm playing well and thinking clearly

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Folding QJ on a Q9xxJ board?... I don't know, he can for sure be value towning himself. Especially since JT now has a piece.

Q9xAJ board to be precise

JT/KJ are snap checking back river at this level, doubt anyone is turning it into a bluff. Wouldn't be shocked at $50nl FT for someone to check back AT here.

Oh missed that the turn was an ace! ok yah that changes it somewhat.

I meant more like, in the case where turn wasn't an ace, hero can have JT so villain might be more inclined to value bet KQ/AQ on riv if hero can't fold now that he has a piece.

Ace turn obviously changes the board quite a bit.