A gaping hole in my game, and possibly my life?

The following is a converstation between gabe and I on AIM. As many of you know, I built my roll from nothing to just under 1k in a month, then I took second in a 10$ FO, Im currently on a horribly long (IMO) losing streak, and my br is getting pretty low. That information might help make sense of some of this.

Also Ive noticed this affecting me in other aspects of my life, where I get to a certain point, then just quit. Its kinda like the kid that begs for a unicycle for a whole year, finally gets one on xmas, then a week later after he learns to ride it, it ends up in his closet, and is never used.

Id really appreciate any input on this. As you can see, Ive realised this, however I have yet to find a solution, is the knowledge of this enough? Im not confident it is.


BeeSeeYouZee: I just had a epifamy
BeeSeeYouZee: or whatever its called
g1u: do tell.
BeeSeeYouZee: I realised why Im losing..
BeeSeeYouZee: I want to be the best..
BeeSeeYouZee: in everything I do I want to be the best..
BeeSeeYouZee: when I realize that being the best is either a silly thing or that its quite possibly unattainable, I normally give up..
BeeSeeYouZee: however..
BeeSeeYouZee: Ive realize that its different in poker
g1u: gar
g1u: i need to win a coinflip
g1u: !
g1u: yay
BeeSeeYouZee: you know when I played 5$ sngs..
BeeSeeYouZee: I played 10 a day..
g1u: ok sorry, go on
BeeSeeYouZee: 10 sngs a day.. and I dont multi table..
BeeSeeYouZee: that is crazy man..
g1u: yes
BeeSeeYouZee: but..
BeeSeeYouZee: I knew that when I got higher I get to play 10$ sngs..
BeeSeeYouZee: the mone ywasnt my reward..
BeeSeeYouZee: moving up was
BeeSeeYouZee: being amongst the best..
BeeSeeYouZee: you see what I mean?
g1u: yea
BeeSeeYouZee: when I won that toureny.. I could play 100$ sngs with taht roll..
BeeSeeYouZee: well .. after withdrawing.. 50$ would be smart..
BeeSeeYouZee: however.. I just felt It was bset to stay at 20 and 30..
BeeSeeYouZee: the reason I felt this in hind sight.. was that I didnt earn 50$ sngs..
g1u: hm?
BeeSeeYouZee: all the sudden I stopped playing sngs and played exclussively mtt's..
BeeSeeYouZee: you know why?
BeeSeeYouZee: this was a new mountain to conquer..
g1u: to win one
BeeSeeYouZee: I also found myself obssessed with TLB ...
BeeSeeYouZee: not the money...
BeeSeeYouZee: yes...
BeeSeeYouZee: and there was the problem..
BeeSeeYouZee: I played great .. but I kept losing..
BeeSeeYouZee: sngs no longer ineterested me.. I already 'conquered' that
g1u: ya
BeeSeeYouZee: you see?
g1u: so
g1u: how does that change now
BeeSeeYouZee: but mtt's I play good and I lose still .. I thought I wasnt good because of this..
BeeSeeYouZee: and it spiraled out of control..
BeeSeeYouZee: I fell back o sngs.. something I didnt have interest in..
BeeSeeYouZee: and lost more..
BeeSeeYouZee: then reverted back to mtt's..
BeeSeeYouZee: and so on and so forth.
g1u: ya
g1u: so
g1u: now.....?
BeeSeeYouZee: hmm
BeeSeeYouZee: truthfully I havent gotten there, however realising this is the first step.

sorry you forgot the best part of conversation

g1u: this is unbeliavable
g1u: im in 3 sngs
g1u: in each one, QJs has called an allin from behind
g1u: AKs v QJs twice
g1u: and 88 v QJs
g1u: all three times it was won by a runner runner flush
g1u: including my AKs losing once
g1u: and
g1u: it was hearts each time
g1u: so
g1u: use those QJ hearts
g1u: when you get em
g1u: and i just pushed from the blinds with AQ with 10bb, and i was called by a AK limper
g1u: wtf is tyhat
g1u: and i just bet into a guy with the nuts
g1u: and he called down
g1u: wtf is that
g1u: omg
g1u: just called by QJs again
g1u: but its clubbs
g1u: so i dont think he will win
g1u: omg he didnt
g1u: good

oh yah.. sorry didnt see how that pertained to my problem. But it is pretty funny that you are a fish, everyone knows QJo is the almighty'est hand, pssshhh QJs.. I laugh at your insolence(truthfully I dont even know what this word means, just sounded good.)

Friend Boost thats the nature of human...
Thats the insict who make us have internet and play poker than live in caves and hunting dinosaurous...
We always want to be the best.. ...but some of us when they achieve something huge they want more and more and more..
U can see this everywhere around u in life... family's split because the woman or the man find another partner... people quiting their jobs for another "new adventure" .. its everywhere around us...

But sometimes u have to wake another instict .. the instict of survive...
Since SnG is ur bread and butter ( or .. anyway how that quote is )
u should stay there and own ..in those tables since poker gives u money..
We had talk about "other options" a lot of times.. but i know u want to play poker..

So why u are still here and read that post ? go FAST back to those SnG and be the doom for everyone who try to claim the #1 place in ur table.

Hey Boost,

I think part of your issue is trying to conquer these mountains with big huge steps. I have the same type of aspirations... I want to get really good at MTTS... win some big ones.... be ilikeaces basically. :) Anyways, I think this has to be approached in steps. First I studied the limit game. It was useful for bonus whoring, but it also taught me many important facets of the game that I don't think I'd get from NL alone. Once I learned a lot from this though, I didn't leave it. Ring limit tables are still a steady part of my poker diet. Even though I can beat them consistantly (at least at the levels I'm at right now), I don't consider them "conquered". I still learn new things all the time from playing limit, and still have miles to go. I branched to SNGs though, which is more where my heart is (NL tourny poker). I've got these to a rate where I'm making good money at the $20+2s and have moved up to 30+3s. Now I want to head into the MTT zone (where I recently had my first win). Do I stop playing SNGs? No way! There is still so much more to learn about the game from SNGs. Even though I can win at a very good rate there (again only at the 20+2 level and now the 30+3), I still don't consider them "conquered". There are people out there that can kill me still, and lots, lots more that I can learn. Every night I play, limit ring (some NL ring too) and SNGs are part of my diet. If you're going to build a mansion, make sure you have a great foundation. I'm constantly moving up levels in all of these venues, as each level teaches you something different. I still feel like I'm at the bottom of the mountain I'm trying to conquer... but I can see the top, and I think I can see the path to get up there. It certainly helps that there are lots of FTR members littered all over the mountain that help to show me the way. ::cheesy music::

I guess what I'm trying to say is... don't just "move on" from one stage to the next. I'm sure you're good at SNGs, but it would be a fallacy to say you can't learn anything more about them. If you want to be a great MTT player, I think it's important to learn about all facets of poker. Heck, 7-card stud would help you become a better MTT player I'm sure. Don't just stop SNGs because you can beat the fish. Move up (bankroll permitting) to learn new things at SNGS, play some limit ring, some NL ring.... all this to feed whatever mountain you're trying to conquer. I'm certain that every great MTT player out there isn't ONLY great at MTTs. They probably have a big foundation in many other areas of poker...

Erm... I'm just rambling here. Hopefully you can get something out of this mess....

Good luck,
Darkwing

yah I took a lot outta that. Thanks a lot man. Im going to take the weekend off, and come back refreshed, my br is really hurt, but its big enough to salvage, and thast what Im going to do.

the problem still isnt exactly solved though, as Im sure that this thing can still creep up on me, if anyone has any further comments and or advice, Id really appreciate it.

This is not entirely a bad problem to have. The feeling of never being satiated with the success and achievements that you have accumulated in the past is what drives you to better yourself and achieve more in the future.

The only drawback I see is to be certain not to allow this to become an obsession. If it becomes an obsession it can break a person if they are unable to master a particular thing that they are driven to master. there needs to be a balance between the verocity of this drive within you and the ability to know your own limits. Knowing your own limits and knowing where to stop is NOT a sign of weakness. Knowing your limitations is more a sign of strength than anything else because it allows you to live your life within yourself instead of fighting a losing battle. Don't confuse this with complacency. Understanding yourself and knowing where to focus your energies is key to leading a happy, fulfilling life.

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BeeSeeYouZee: Ive realize that its different in poker
g1u: gar
g1u: i need to win a coinflip
g1u: !
g1u: yay

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Gabe's a listener.

-'rilla

Have you conquered SnGs?

If you've never played at the 200 level, how can you say you've "done that." (with reference to SnGs as a whole)

-'rilla

Why fix something that isn't broken? You can win at these SnGs, so why stop? Your profiting, and eventually when you have enough you will HAVE to move up or it will be stupid to play at such low levels. Now that you have so much profit, MTTs can be paid for and even if you bust, your SnG profits for the day still keep you up.

I say get back into the swing of SnG and build your roll. Winning is winning. Everyone wants to be the best, but you can't just go from being a slow stake player to the best. You have to build your way up and up and up.

If you truly want to be the best.. You'll have to realise and accept this.

my advice is move to 7card stud... its a right fun laugh, a nice change from hold'em. Variety is the spice of life :D

Maybe you just played tooo many SnGs in too shorta time, and pokered yourself out.. take a lil break and come back to them with a new fresh positive outlook. ... and just take it all with a pinch of salt and have some fun playing them....

maybe try and master something else in your game, like emotional control - just try and remain completely stable mentally and emotionally with a slow heart beat thru a whole SnG ... thats quite a challenge i think.

thanks for all the advice guys, and rilla, I play 2 table sngs, 20 and 30$ are pretty much the same skill level and the only ones that ever fill up.

currently Ive been losing at these, and I think its because of the afformented problem. I plan to get back into the swing of things, Im just taking the weekend off. Also I think Im going to move over to PP, I switched to stars a couple months ago because I was looking to learn, Ive heard that PP is easy pickin, so Ill give that a shot.

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Originally Posted by boostNslide

As many of you know, I built my roll from nothing to just under 1k in a month.

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I did this on 3 seperate occasions in my first few months of playing poker before busting out on each occasion, when I was still a losing player overall after the last bust (and frankly, not very good compared to where I was just a few months after this). I kind of have the same type of thing where I'm never really satisfied at being at a specific level, and am always looking to improve, which I think is a good thing for poker overall.

To be honest, I think your problem was mistaking your big upswing as a mastering of the game, instead of what it more likely was, which is a very lucky streak combined with good play. Then as you say you felt like you didn't have anything left to prove anymore in SNGs, but really that goes against your personality, and your striving to improve, and if you're not moving forward in your game, more than likely you're probably moving backwards.

Keep at it, man. With enough determination, studying, and experience, you'll get to a higher level of play where you won't be going through as big of swings anymore, and I'm sure you will be able to move up to higher stakes, as your personality already pushes you in that direction. I just get the feeling that you need some more experience under your belt to go along with that.

Also, I don't feel like you'd have to stick to SNGs to be successful by any means. I really feel that any half-way intelligent person can learn to be a successful player at any form of poker, at some buyin level, as long as they are willing to work at it, study the game in some form (talking with other players, reading articles and posts on forums, reading poker books, etc.), and most importantly if they're willing to give it time. You'll probably just need to give yourself more bankroll room with MTTs as opposed to SNGs, as you don't have as much experience in them.

Be patient and stay within your bankroll as much as you can, and the rest will come.

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Also Ive noticed this affecting me in other aspects of my life, where I get to a certain point, then just quit. Its kinda like the kid that begs for a unicycle for a whole year, finally gets one on xmas, then a week later after he learns to ride it, it ends up in his closet, and is never used.

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to me it sounds like you were trying to hard to improve your game and you starting taking poker too seriously. Sometimes you have to remember to take breaks from the game and remember to have fun as well as perform to your best abilities

wtf, fjuanl just posted on May 9th. And it's May 8th today.

Boost, how's your SnG quest coming along?

2005...you're either not funny or retarded

hahahah i just got done playing Madden 2005, sorry.

'studda step' is so +EV.

I actually found this thread by googling somebody's AIM screenname from FTR, it's not like I intentionally dug it up...

hah bummmp..

Im glad you bumped this, I dont think I read all the replies, and theres good stuff here. When I first saw the thread bumped and read the title I IM'ed lukie and was like "wtf, why did you bump some emo thread of mine?" then I started reading and realized theres good content here..

Hey, the only gaping hole in your life is your boyfriends rear end!!!!!! HAHAHA BURN

Hey, the only gaping hole in your life is my rear end!

I AM THE BURN MASTER

burn?.. why are you speaking about yourself in the third person. And it would only be a burn had it been my asshole as opposed to yours.

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Originally Posted by boostNslide

burn?.. why are you speaking about yourself in the third person. And it would only be a burn had it been my asshole as opposed to yours.

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Gay jokes? Those are so 2 posts ago.

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Originally Posted by bigred

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Hey, the only gaping hole in your life is my rear end!!!!!! HAHAHA BURN

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I AM THE BURN MASTER

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I left myself wide open for that one.

i like my contribution about the QJs hands

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Originally Posted by gabe

i like my contribution about the QJs hands

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I think the thread has moved on.

yeah, all gabe ever does is talk about bad beats.

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Originally Posted by bigred

Hey, the only gaping hole in your life is my rear end!

I AM THE BURN MASTER

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Nice edit, (gabe???)

I feel like your problem is a very common one, but let's be honest about what it is: a losing streak. I feel like so often poker players refuse to awknowledge that losing is an inherent part of playing poker, and even more so, this losing typically comes in streaks where the cards seem especially cruel.

I've had a lot of streaks both ways when I first started playing. There was one month shortly after I first began to get very good at low-limit holdem that I went to the casino every day for three weeks straight and didn't post a single losing session. I started at 1-3, moved to 3-6, and before I knew it was sitting in 5-10 games where I'd never considered playing even a month before then. And then, things began to unravel...

The ascension was a positive thing, but it was good play combined with a card rush, and we forget that oftentimes a card rush is only the absence of horrible beats for a couple weeks.

My theory is this: poker is both a technical and a confidence game, but unfortunately each one often tugs at the other until you find the right balance. Everytime I've ever sat down and really studied poker, devoting a week or more to digesting a new skill, game, or arena, I've found that my immediate results suffer. Sure, I know "more" about poker, but I also know more that I don't know, and that causes my confidence to suffer, and there's an awkward hesitation in my thinking and in my moves. I just don't feel natural. Over time, this wears off, and I make a boatload more for forcing myself to do the bookwork and thinking to improve my fundamental game. But it does seem like it will never end.

I think the key thing is to play through it. Take a break, think about poker and what's going on in your game, maybe buy a Wilson Software program to practice, and then get back in the game when you feel refreshed. The number one thing it to believe in yourself as you go through it. If you don't, you're toast.

Think about this: imagine if someone were able to magically make you know everything you didn't know about poker the first time you sat down at a table. Could you function at the game? Or would you have a crisis of confidence and throw your money away even quicker? I think the latter. The same thing happenes everytime we realize we need to learn more, compete more, move up in levels, and be better poker players. Interestingly, you're right, this is also what makes us better human beings.

OMG FUCKIN DWDUCK POSTED

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Originally Posted by DWDuck

I still feel like I'm at the bottom of the mountain I'm trying to conquer... but I can see the top, and I think I can see the path to get up there. It certainly helps that there are lots of FTR members littered all over the mountain that help to show me the way. ::cheesy music::

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lmfaoooo

that was the funniest image that ever popped into my head. ever.

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Originally Posted by Werddown

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Originally Posted by DWDuck

I still feel like I'm at the bottom of the mountain I'm trying to conquer... but I can see the top, and I think I can see the path to get up there. It certainly helps that there are lots of FTR members littered all over the mountain that help to show me the way. ::cheesy music::

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lmfaoooo

that was the funniest image that ever popped into my head. ever.

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WTF U POST BUMPING MFER... WHERE DO YOU LIVE SO I CAN PEE IN YOUR FRIDGE?!

WTF

How did I know that Bailey couldn't live without being involved in at least one gaping hole thread?

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Originally Posted by Zodiac Killer

How did I know that Bailey couldn't live without being involved in at least one gaping hole thread?

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HAHAHA BURN

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