Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,292,000 Posts!
Poker ForumFTR Blogs and Operations

Operation: 25NL to Whatever

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 75 of 109
  1. #1

    Default Operation: 25NL to Whatever

    Finally made it back to 25NL.

    Old Op:

    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...nl-t82905.html

    Hopefully I can remain at 25NL. Transferred $700 BR from PS to FTP for the Bonus and Rakeback. Took about 10 days to get the PS check so in the meantime I deposited $40 at PS and played 5NL until the check arrived. The $40 is now $100 so I cashout today and deposit it into FTP also. Max deposit at FTP is $600 so I did the $600 and then did $100 24 hours after that. Once I get the remaining $100 from PS I deposit it too.

    So BR started at $800

    First couple of days went ok at 25NL. I was essentially breaking even. The last 3 days haven't been so good but it doesn't bother me that much as I was due for some variance. Plus I've spewed a bit playing calling stations when there was "No way he's holding pocket A's". I'm down 4 BIs but what is nice is that I've already earned $20 towards my bonus and in about 20 FPPs I'll get another $20. I'm averaging almost $10 a day in bonus. The rakeback should start coming in in a week or so. I believe it lags a week or so.

    I'm currently 3-4 tabling 6-max 25NL

    Goals:

    -Remain at 25NL at least until I can clear my bonus. -Fail

    -Clear bonus within 120 days

    -Learn more about Implied Odds and SPR

    -Get better at ranges. Suggestions welcome on how to practice this.

    -Play more aggressive. I currently play at 16/10/3 over about 350k hands

    -Move up to 50NL within 6 months to a year but I'm in no hurry

    -Have Fun and not tilt every time I have a downswing-Semi fail

    -Learn the difference between variance and bad play

    -Take more notes-Pass

    -Sweat Sessions would help alot. When I watched M2M play it helped alot (hint, hint)

    -Contribute something of substance to this forum or the other forums

    -If I drop to $450 I WILL drop back down to 10NL but I prob won't be real happy about it- Dropped down and not happy so I guess this is a Pass

    -Read a poker book (still haven't done this)

    -Compile a notebook containing important poker articles to read frequently. Suggestions on what to put in this def welcome. It would be nice to have the Powerpoint presentations from the GS lectures.
    Update 12/16: Printed alot of the BC Digest articles to put in a notebook along with Ryan Fee's guide. Need to get the highlighter out. I need to read Fee's guide again as I may understand it better now.

    -Learn to Fold TPTK to a shove. I believe this is the biggest leak I have especially to passive calling stations

    -Learn how to play AK. I've got the GS vids but I need to watch them more often.

    -Just play ABC poker because it's easier than playing FPS poker.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  2. #2

    Default Re: Operation: 25NL to Whatever

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    Finally made it back to 25NL. ... I'm currently 3-4 tabling 6-max 25NL ... Goals: ...
    Congratulations and best of luck moving forward. Go get 'em!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    Max deposit at FTP is $600 so I did the $600 and then did $100 24 hours after that.
    Outstanding! So, in the UIGEA era, you were able to get your visa card to work? Something else? I'm impressed. I didn't think you'd be able to get it all on in one shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    -Read a poker book (still haven't done this)

    -Compile a notebook containing important poker articles to read frequently. Suggestions on what to put in this def welcome. It would be nice to have the Powerpoint presentations from the GS lectures.
    Miller, Flynn, and Mehta released an eBook called Small Stakes No Limit Hold'em that can be bought and printed out @ Kinkos or your computer. I highly recommend it. It is specifically aimed @ the 6 max $1/$2 game, but all the concepts can be applied to lower stakes, full ring, and the like.
    - Jason

  3. #3
    Thanks Jason.

    Surprisingly the Visa worked... twice. It is a check card though so that may have helped.

    I'll check out the eBook
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  4. #4
    Professional No Limit Hold'Em, No Limit Hold'Em Theory and Practice.

    'Grats on hitting 25nl man. You've had some problems in the past, but you've overcome them, and now its time to own! Go to work!
  5. #5
    congrats on making it to 25nl, i knew you would.

    best of luck to you.
  6. #6
    Last nights session was frustrating and also a bit humorous.

    These are as they happened with all different villians at different tables:

    +1 BI with AA>KK (shove pf)
    +1 BI with set
    +1 BI with TP and GS straight and hit straight
    -1 BI with KK<AA
    -1 BI with set of 6s<set of Ts
    -1 BI with TP (Ks) and GS straight and missed straight (villian had AA)

    I lost my 3 BIs in the same manner in which I won them and in the same order. Kinda funny but I'd rather have the BIs than the laugh. I broke even at least.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  7. #7
    Down almost 7 BIs in 7 days. But I've gotten $75 back in RB & Bonus ($60 in bonus and $15 in RB). Sweet!!!

    If you don't read anything else, please read this:
    I did some analysis on HEM. I filtered out all hands for the month where the pot was <$1.00. I was going to work on ranges a bit. When I looked at the total winnings/losses for only these hands the total was + $175. This means I've lost almost the same amount in small pots. What does this tell me? I'm folding medium strength when I'm probably ahead? I think one reason for this is the lack of sets with pp. I "set it or forget it" and I've been "forgetting it" alot. I'm going to look at this in more detail later today

    "-Learn the difference between variance and bad play "

    I do believe this is variance. Seems common to run bad once you move up but this really makes sense. You've been running good for long enough to move up so it stands to reason that you will run bad eventually. I had two positive sessions as soon as I moved up (only a couple of BIs between the two) and then started running bad.

    I'm going to try not bitching in this OP but I am going to evaluate things more when I'm running bad.
    I believe this is running bad because:

    -I can hardly hit a set. When I do I value bet and all fold or the board has 3-4 flush cards and I can't fold a set.

    -AK is hitting about 5% of the time. I've also been bluffing AK too much when I miss.

    -KK shove pf is mostly getting hit by AA or AK with A on board(These don't bother me too much)

    -Flush's are hitting on the flop so my cards are essentially face up so I get very little value or not hitting at all. I did have an open ended Royal FD on one table but I didn't hit and I didn't spew either

    -I get AA in the BB and all fold

    -etc.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    Seems common to run bad once you move up but this really makes sense. You've been running good for long enough to move up so it stands to reason that you will run bad eventually. I had two positive sessions as soon as I moved up (only a couple of BIs between the two) and then started running bad.
    Be careful about this line of thinking. You cannot use the past to predict the future in terms of luck and variance. At any one moment in time looking in the future, your likelihood of "running good" or "running bad" is exactly the same. Having recently run good does not make you due to run bad in the same way that flipping heads 5 times in a row with a coin doesn't make you more likely to flip tails on the next one - it's still a 50/50 chance.

    It's quite possible you have gone through some bad luck during this recent stretch as indicated in your bullet points, but I would just keep looking for the things you CAN control and always be braced for more bad luck while optimistic things will go well, too. Good luck.
    - Jason

  9. #9
    If you are lucky during negative variance you will never run bad.

    If you are unlucky during positive variance you will never run good.

    If you are unlucky during negative variance then
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  10. #10
    Getting frustrated. Up 3 BIs at one time and ended up down 0.5 BI.
    It would be nice to have ONE winning session. Should I just quit for the day when I get up a couple of BIs?

    Sets are kicking my AA ass. Got AA 8 times and down $15 because of sets.

    KK cost me $44 against station with AA.

    Got $20 more in bonus.

    Without bonus and RB I'm down $183
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    If you are lucky during negative variance you will never run bad.

    If you are unlucky during positive variance you will never run good.

    If you are unlucky during negative variance then
    I was under the impression that "variance" was the 'luck' part of poker.

    Anyway, I wish you the best. My advice (of what little I have to give):

    Always, always, always think about your opponents range and their probable response, and what you want to gain from the hand before you do any other action.

    Even if you know you're going to shippa it, just spend 10 seconds going over it again.
  12. #12
    I'm down 9.5 BIs not including RB and bonus. Running bad or do I still suck?
    I have not had one winning session since the first 2 days.
    Looks like my betting sucks after looking at these.

    Maybe I'm being too results oriented but when the results always end up with me losing it's hard not to.

    I value bet when I think I'm ahead for alot of these.

    I'll add some reads later.

    Hand 1

    18/14/1

    100% fold to steal
    67% fold to cbet

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($23.65)
    BB ($40.19)
    UTG ($13.04)
    Hero (MP) ($25)
    CO ($30.91)
    Button ($34.44)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with 4, A
    1 fold, Hero bets $1, CO calls $1, 3 folds

    Flop: ($2.35) 4, J, A (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50

    Turn: ($5.35) Q (2 players)
    Hero bets $3, CO calls $3

    River: ($11.35) 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $5, CO raises to $25.41 (All-In), Hero calls $14.50 (All-In)

    Total pot: $50.35 | Rake: $2.51

    Results below:
    Hero had 4, A (two pair, Aces and fours).
    CO had 4, 4 (three of a kind, fours).
    Outcome: CO won $47.84


    Hand 2

    villian is 64/18/1.3

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($32.27)
    MP ($25)
    Hero (Button) ($25.66)
    SB ($21.48)
    BB ($45.61)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 9
    UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.75

    Flop: ($2.35) 2, 6, K (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $1.75, UTG calls $1.75

    Turn: ($5.85) 10 (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $3, UTG calls $3

    River: ($11.85) 5 (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $0.25, UTG raises to $2.25, Hero calls $2

    Total pot: $16.35 | Rake: $0.81

    Results below:
    Hero had K, 9 (one pair, Kings).
    UTG had K, 5 (two pair, Kings and fives).
    Outcome: UTG won $15.54


    Hand 3

    43/9/3

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP ($13.23)
    CO ($17.75)
    Hero (Button) ($25.80)
    SB ($15.57)
    BB ($26.71)
    UTG ($47.89)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
    3 folds, Hero bets $0.75, SB calls $0.65, 1 fold

    Flop: ($1.75) 5, 10, 8 (2 players)
    SB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.80, SB calls $2.05

    Turn: ($7.35) 6 (2 players)
    SB bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75

    River: ($10.85) Q (2 players)
    SB bets $10.27 (All-In), Hero folds

    Total pot: $10.85 | Rake: $0.54

    Results below:
    SB didn't show
    Outcome: SB won $10.31


    Hand 4

    22/15/2.3

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    BB ($26.48)
    UTG ($34.21)
    Hero (MP) ($40.50)
    Button ($52.51)
    SB ($41.50)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with 10, J
    1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50

    Flop: ($1.60) 9, 8, 7 (2 players)
    BB bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3.50, BB raises to $12.10, Hero raises to $39.75 (All-In), BB calls $13.63 (All-In)

    Turn: ($53.06) Q (2 players, 2 all-in)

    River: ($53.06) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

    Total pot: $53.06 | Rake: $2.65

    Results below:
    BB had 8, 8 (full house, eights over sevens).
    Hero had 10, J (straight, Queen high).
    Outcome: BB won $50.41


    Hand 5

    31/26/4

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($31.14)
    MP ($86.31)
    Hero (Button) ($43.59)
    SB ($25.10)
    BB ($27.47)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A
    2 folds, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $6, BB calls $3.50

    Flop: ($12.10) 9, 3, 8 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $9, BB raises to $21.47 (All-In), Hero calls $12.47

    Turn: ($55.04) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    River: ($55.04) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: $55.04 | Rake: $2.75

    Results below:
    Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
    BB had 9, 9 (three of a kind, nines).
    Outcome: BB won $52.29


    Hand 6



    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    Hero (SB) ($30.69)
    BB ($26.75)
    UTG ($26.80)
    MP ($23.10)
    CO ($26.64)
    Button ($25)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K
    UTG bets $0.85, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.80, 1 fold, UTG raises to $26.80 (All-In), Hero calls $24

    Flop: ($53.85) 4, 4, 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Turn: ($53.85) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    River: ($53.85) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: $53.85 | Rake: $2.69

    Results below:
    Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and fours).
    UTG had K, A (two pair, Aces and fours).
    Outcome: UTG won $51.16


    Hand 7

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($25)
    MP ($8.08)
    Button ($31.21)
    SB ($27.81)
    Hero (BB) ($26.39)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A, J
    2 folds, Button bets $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, Button calls $2

    Flop: ($6.10) 9, 8, 10 (2 players)
    Hero bets $2.50, Button raises to $28.21 (All-In), Hero calls $20.89 (All-In)

    Turn: ($52.88) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)

    River: ($52.88) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

    Total pot: $52.88 | Rake: $2.64

    Results below:
    Button had 7, 7 (one pair, sevens).
    Hero had A, J (high card, Ace).
    Outcome: Button won $50.24
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  13. #13
    I'd say most of them just look like standard coolers to me. Except hand 3 where I don't know why you only bet 1.75 into a 7.45 pot when he had already called one street. You're just asking for him to call there with those kind of pot odds. Other than that spot just keep plugging away. I recently went on a -13 BI downswing due to these types of hands. Sure it sucks, but that's why you're rolled for your level.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  14. #14
    Thanks Don.

    I believe I have found a huge leak. I found all losing hands > ~70bb

    There was a total of about 30 hands. Of these hands:

    3 were High card- what a dumbass!
    24 were Top Pair-ditto
    1 was set-meh
    1 was straight-meh
    1 was flush-meh

    Next I will look at winning hands and see if I could have gotten more value out of them. I may need some help on these.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    I found all losing hands > ~70bb
    There was a total of about 30 hands. Of these hands:
    3 were High card- what a dumbass!
    24 were Top Pair-ditto
    Sounds like you've got the same issue that hits me hard from time to time. That being the mentality that "I am the best poker player ever and there is no way that these fish actually have hands! RAWR CALL/SHOVE!"

    It's gross when you start thinking like that cause it can be a pretty vicious cycle but that's where reviewing hand history mid session can help. If you lose a big pot, replay the hand, did you make a stupid call or shove cause you were tilted or did you actually just get reasonably out played. If you were out played examine how this happened. Did you bet when you shouldn't have? Raise when it was clear that your opponent was NOT folding under any circumstances? Take a step back from ego-tilt and remind yourself to start thinking again as often times you won't even realize what you are doing and everything will just look like a bad beat.
  16. #16
    I did some more analysis of my stats to find leaks.

    -I was opening alot from UTG with AQo, AQs, KJs, KJo, KQo, KQs, AJs and getting into tough spots and getting out kicked.

    -I was 3betting too much with marginal hands.

    -I was calling shoves with draws without odds to call.

    Made some sticky notes.

    Watched Jyms ABC poker video and a couple from Spenda from GS.

    There was another reply on this from someone and it's gone now. It said wait 10 secs before acting. I decided to do this too but was running short on time so I made it 5 secs. That helps alot. Never underestimate the power of thinking about it first instead of just hitting buttons.

    Up 1.5 BIs.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  17. #17
    Op over.

    Please close.

    Moving back down to 10NL. I will not make another OP.

    Down 13 BIs in 11 days in 12,600 hands.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  18. #18
    Hey man, before you give up just hear me out. I recently spent the last week recovering from a -13 BI downswing. and right as I got back into the black I was hit last night and today with an even worse -15 Buy in swing (yeah I spewed a fuck ton). That's when I read an almost 3-year-old post by sauce.
    http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....6-Max-NLHE.php
    after reading that and some of the subsequent discussion I fired up FT again gave my meager remaining BR the finger and have since won back 7 buy ins in.... an hour and a half of play. Sure, the post is made for 100nl, however, the same concepts apply to all levels of poker. I've been trying to play this way almost to a T and well... it works... a lot.
  19. #19
    Thanks Don but I'll pass. I'll prob read it but I need to drop down...at least for a while.

    Final tally:
    -$320
    +$114 in RB and bonus

    Including RB and bonus I'm down 8.2 BIs but I need to move down to get some confidence back. To lose in almost every session is killing my poker ego.


    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  20. #20
    That's a rough looking graph
    Sure, move down but absolutely give that article a read it's currently saving my poker life.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  21. #21
    There's no shame in moving down, but I wouldn't close this thread or vow never to start a new one. If at first you don't succeed, yadda yadda yadda ... poker is hard and I think 6 max is particularly hard, too. Don't fret. Just keep working at it. Good luck.
    - Jason

  22. #22
    OK, I won't close it but I'm not sure where to go from here. Sometimes I forget how swongy 6max can be. What makes this worse is that I'm studying more than I ever have.

    Looks like I'll get at least another $35 from RB on Friday making the total loss of $170 or 6.8 BIs. That doesn't seem so bad except for the fact that I'm losing my ass playing. I guess that's what rb and bonus are for. To keep from losing your ass off when you're losing your ass off.

    Drop to 10NL:

    Pros-
    -I can get my confidence back.
    -If I'm running bad it won't affect my BR as much.

    Cons:
    -It will be harder to earn bonus.
    -RB will be smaller.
    -If I start running better I'll not be earning as much.
    -I'll be "scared" when I move back up because I ran so bad before.

    Stay at 25NL

    Pros-

    -Earn RB and Bonus faster

    -If I start running better I will be making more money than 10NL

    Cons

    -If I continue to run bad/play bad I'll not only get less confident I'll be pissing away my BR.

    I'm going to play 10NL for a while to think about it.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  23. #23
    A few hands.
    Some winners, some losers


    Hand 1

    villian is 57/6/3.1 over 140

    Plays Ax regardless of board. When he hits A he bets like a madman.

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($44.35)
    BB ($25.25)
    UTG ($4)
    MP ($23.77)
    CO ($9)
    Hero (Button) ($34.11)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, 6
    UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Hero bets $1, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75

    Flop: ($4.25) 5, 6, 3 (4 players)
    SB bets $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, SB calls $2.50

    Turn: ($11.25) 4 (2 players)
    SB bets $4.25, Hero calls $4.25

    River: ($19.75) 9 (2 players)
    SB bets $8.75, Hero calls $8.75

    Total pot: $37.25 | Rake: $1.86

    Hand 2

    52/6/1.8

    Will play any pair and go to SD with pair unless shoved.

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    Hero (MP) ($24.44)
    Button ($28.29)
    SB ($28.39)
    BB ($9.51)
    UTG ($29.86)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with A, K
    1 fold, Hero bets $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75

    Flop: ($3) 10, 7, 10 (3 players)
    SB checks, BB bets $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold

    Turn: ($5) K (2 players)
    BB bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75

    River: ($8.50) 8 (2 players)
    BB bets $5.76 (All-In), Hero calls $5.76

    Total pot: $20.02 | Rake: $1

    Hand 3


    57/26/4.9 over 90

    very aggro. plays TP like the nuts.

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($34.49)
    MP ($27.62)
    Button ($43.49)
    Hero (SB) ($25)
    BB ($7.39)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K
    1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Button bets $1, Hero raises to $3.50, 1 fold, MP calls $3.25, 1 fold

    Flop: ($8.25) Q, 4, 10 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP bets $8.25, Hero calls $8.25

    Turn: ($24.75) 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP bets $15.87 (All-In), Hero ?

    Hand 4

    32/5/3.5 over 62

    I had been stealing blinds at 50% with good hands for about 30 hands. Pot size donk bet looked like a bluff to me then he shoved.

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($17.10)
    BB ($25.40)
    Hero (UTG) ($26.56)
    Button ($27.05)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9, 9
    Hero bets $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold

    Flop: ($2.25) 5, 4, 2 (2 players)
    SB bets $2.25, Hero raises to $6, SB raises to $16.10 (All-In), Hero ???

    Hand 5

    30/25/4.2 over 170
    I put him on Ax throughout the hand.

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($20)
    Hero (BB) ($25.20)
    UTG ($10.35)
    MP ($27.22)
    CO ($31.68)
    Button ($36.06)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, 6
    UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, Hero checks

    Flop: ($0.60) J, A, Q (2 players)
    Hero checks, UTG checks

    Turn: ($0.60) Q (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.50, UTG raises to $1.25, Hero calls $0.75

    River: ($3.10) 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, UTG bets $8.85 (All-In), Hero calls $8.85

    Total pot: $20.80 | Rake: $1.04

    Hand 6

    67/19/2.3 over 30

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP ($29.08)
    Button ($26.25)
    SB ($79.85)
    Hero (BB) ($25)
    UTG ($26.90)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
    3 folds, SB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

    Flop: ($1.50) 5, 2, A (2 players)
    SB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.25, SB calls $0.75

    Turn: ($4) K (2 players)
    SB bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $1.75

    River: ($10) 5 (2 players)
    SB bets $4.25, Hero calls $4.25

    Total pot: $18.50 | Rake: $0.92
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  24. #24
    I'm now convinced that I am running bad.

    Played some 10NL and down 1.5 BIs

    AQ<22 on QQ2 flop
    KQo<45d on 2ATJdd with d river

    I think I feel better now.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  25. #25
    Here's something else to think about. How does Full Tilt affect your game? From my brief experience, I wouldn't recommend that anyone switch sites AND move up in stakes. Right now, I don't play as well @ Full Tilt as I do @ Stars. Because I am so used to Stars and no Full Tilt, there are so many subtle changes in the software that add up to me not being as effective on Tilt as I am Stars. Now add in the difficulty of moving up stakes and there's a lot of unknown variables @ work least of all variance.
    - Jason

  26. #26
    I think I'm used to the software now. I'm really mostly card dead or I can't hit any outs. I'm having the same experience at 10NL now. I don't sweat it as much at 10NL as I'm way over rolled for 10NL. Thinks will cahnge eventualy...

    I have noticed that there aren't as many soft games as there is at PS. Table selection is much harder at FT and when you find a good table and finally get in, most of the fish are already gone.

    Down 2.6 BIs at 10NL.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  27. #27
    Totally agree about FTP vs Stars in terms of game selection. I played 55k hands there in November it just seemed like a total nit/TAG fest. It was soso lame. Thats why I gtfo and went back to stars.
  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Hey Sasquach, I looked over the hands you've posted in this thread and one recurring theme is that your betsizing is pretty bad in places, particularly some of the river bets and postflop raises. I think even if you got coolered in some of these hands, if this is common across other hands you haven't posted you're missing out on a lot of value that may help take the edge off your downswing and help improve your overall winrate. I don't want you to feel like I'm ragging on you because I'm trying to be helpful, but if you want to discuss any specific hands I'll be keeping an eye on this thread cuz I'm interested in seeing how you get on.

    Good luck getting settled back in at $25nl so you can beat it!
  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by dranger7070
    Totally agree about FTP vs Stars in terms of game selection. I played 55k hands there in November it just seemed like a total nit/TAG fest. It was soso lame. Thats why I gtfo and went back to stars.
    After I clear my bonus (if possible) I may do the same.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  30. #30
    Ya, I agree there are probably things you're missing out on. Not being well versed in 6max, I don't really have much advice other than look for something other than "not getting cards" or "getting coolered"

    As for site selection, I'll have to play a lot more on FTP to know more about that, too, but I did notice last night I seemed to have a better selection than I usually do @ Stars during their 3x xmas happy hour and the tables stayed good for a while whereas on Stars they tend to break up quicker. But, that's just one night and one time frame.
    - Jason

  31. #31
    Down 5 BIs at 10 NL because:

    -a set of A's can't win on a shove with a runner runner four flush board.
    -AA can't win against 23hh on a 6T9h board with Th on turn and Kh on river
    -A9cc can't win against A7s on a 992s board shove with 8s5s
    -33 can't win on a T39cc board shove with 78

    I'm back to where I was 10 months ago and I've pissed away almost $400 in 2 weeks. How can I not be results oriented when the results are killing my BR?

    No more updates for a while...
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Keep posting hands, ones you lose, ones you win, hands you thought you played well regardless of outcome, etc. I'd be interested in seeing the hand histories from your previous post.

    The only way out is through. Losing money is hard enough but thinking you are playing well and still losing can be hard to rationalize. Keep your head up, keep posting hands and seeking advice, and you'll get there.
  33. #33
    Sorry to hear that. I figured you were busting out soon for the better. For whatever its worth, my advice is to go back to Stars and play $10NL. You've proven you can win there and can try to regain your confidence. You may not believe it, but I really think switching to Full Tilt AND moving up has a LOT to do with all these bad results. The software is DRASTICALLY different and much more difficult if you're coming from Stars. Even if you were on Stars and 100% confident, it would be challenging because moving up is ALWAYS challenging, but doing it on a site where you're unfamiliar with everything is just another handicap for you.

    Also, the player pool is different - they may be better, worse, or just different. They have a pot button, a max bet button, and 1/2 pot on PL tables. All these things add up. I'm not saying you haven't had some bad luck, but when you're having NORMAL or GOOD luck, you may not be cashing in as much as you should be and that's the same as losing even if you're technically winning.

    On the bright side, you have rakeback and FullTilt will always be there whether you come back later or stick it out. And Stars is always there, too, where you can hopefully go back to your winning ways if not now, later.

    Good luck. Don't throw away all you've worked for for some short term bad results. Keep following bankroll management and working on your game. If you have to move down again to $5NL, move down again. Chris Ferguson during his $1 to $10,000 challenge had to drop 2 levels once. No shame in his game. No shame in yours. Do what you have to do for better or worse.
    - Jason

  34. #34
    Down 8.5 BIs at 10NL

    Quitting is now an option

    3 winning sessions out of 24 starting 12/11

    Biggest winning session is 1.5 BIs

    Down $404 in 2 weeks which is half of my BR and 1/4 of my total winnings since I started.

    Options now are limited as this is too frustrating for me to continue.

    Total hands at FTP




    Total at PS



    One more graph for shits and giggles

    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  35. #35
    Jeeze man, sorry to hear that. The only thing I can say from that last graph is that either you might be playing a bit scared and giving up on hands too early or that you might be getting yourself into too many marginal situations either by not playing tight enough preflop or by playing too aggro too often post flop. I hope santa brings you a giant box of luck and some answers!

    Post your stats and let's all see if we can't figure something out.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  36. #36
    Ur only 100ish dollars under EV that's either 10 or 4 buyins which is not running that bad.
    But your redline is a huge concern aka post flop play.

    Whats your money when saw flop stat?
  37. #37
    Basically what clvacva said. You're spewing badly postflop. Tighten up your opening range for a bit. I have a link you should look at. Just go back to the basics man. No fancy play needed.

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...micros-430637/

    Just listen to what it says in there (except for the opening range since its for FR). You will get back to winning ways before too long buddy. Don't sweat it.
  38. #38
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    Can you upload your recent stats please?
  39. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Repost the total graph for PS with non-showdown line, including overall stats for PS and FT seperately. I'm really interested in the red line over this sample.

    It might also be worth looking over the biggest losses you've had in non-showdown pots and posting some here, because that non-showdown line is indicating something is wrong besides bad luck. Between some of the betsizing I noted previously, and your red line, it's possible you're playing too weakly postflop. If so, this could be a really easy fix if you have the dedication to continue.

    One thing I would note about the FT graph in relation to the PS graph is the much bigger sample of the PS graph still has some pretty big downswings in it that aren't far off your most recent, which would suggest the problem with your game has been there a while and was potentially obscured by the winning sample, but your most recent downswing has been emphasised by moving to FT and so stands out.

    It looks like you have a few good people in this thread volunteering their time to help you find the issues with your game, so I hope you give them the information they need to help you because clearly there's a winning player in there and it'd be a shame not to do everything you can to fulfill that.
  40. #40
    Here's the first stats. Let me know if you want more...

    Positional for 10NL



    Positional for 25NL



    PS ALL Hands

    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by clvacva
    ...

    Whats your money when saw flop stat?
    How do I only show this?
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  42. #42
    You can add it to your positional stats.

    In HEM go to: Leak Buster - Position -> Green + Sign under 'Stats Selection -> Under 'Default Stats' scroll down til you see 'Won When Saw Flop,' select it -> Save -> Refresh and it should be in there.
  43. #43




    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  44. #44
    Those fold SB/BB to steal stats are way to high.
  45. #45
    Alright dude the following may be a bit long but it's my 2cents (or maybe more like 2 dollars). Also, know that I just am working my way out of a pretty bad tailspin myself so I know exactly where you are coming from.

    The first thing that jumps out at me and rightfully so is your red line ($ won w/o showdown). It's literally the most linear poker graph I have ever seen in my entire life. That means that you are at least doing something consistent. Unfortunately it is consistently wrong, however, this also means that there is only one major area you truly need to focus on at this point which makes things easier. Looking at my graph, my red line is a little up and down but essentially horizontal zigzag above the break even line. In fact, during my down swing the red line had an upwards spike. The fact of the matter is, you're losing over 2/3s of your winnings to pots that don't even go to the show down and that means your overall losing trend has NOTHING to do with running poorly. It just becomes more pronounced when you are running badly because you have no upswing to balance out this gaping whole in your wallet.

    Looking at your preflop stats there really isn't a huge amount to say. Compared to my stats you win more often from every position except the CO when you go to showdown and you are playing tight preflop poker which is excellent. I will bring up one point. Your 3bet percent is 2.7 which is quite low and add that to a 60% cbet on the flop and we begin to get a picture of what the problem is. Over all, your aggression is a lot lower than the way I play and that may work for you but it also completes at least a partial picture of your leak.

    Two words. Fold Equity. What is fold equity? I'm sure you know the definition but do you actually understand the concept?
    Fold equity is so vitally important to every move you make in poker. In fact, it might be one of THE single most important things to consider before making a move. From looking at your stats it is pretty clear to me that even if you do understand the concept you don't grasp the whole picture and that is fine. That's why I'm going to try and explain it as best I can.

    Your VPIP and PFR is all well and good but when your 3bet percent is so low and aggression is so low you look like you are just robotically cbetting any flop you get involved in. When you raise preflop You're obviously raising with hands that will hopefully give you good equity on the flop, turn, and river. However, the way you open a hand, whether it is leading out or 3betting or even 4betting, also effects your fold equity. For instance. If I am in EP with 66 and I open for 4x the BB and it folds around to the CO who calls and then folds the blinds you must now consider ranges. The CO's range depending on how he plays could be anything from ATC to a mid pair or broadways so that is there for you to determine. What you really need to look at once the flop comes is what is my range to him? And EP range for any reasonable player is generally going to be PP, maybe some suited broadways and what everyone from the best players to even the microdonks know, strong and potentially suited aces. Now with our 66, let's say the flop comes down 4A10. A cbet then becomes standard. Boom, you bet and perhaps they fold. Maybe they don't fold but you have subconsciously reinforced in them that "oh shit, maybe he has a good ace. At this point you obviously need a range so let's say you put the villain on QJs for the gutshot straight that they have now chased to the turn. Let's say the turn is an 8 so the board is now [b]4 A 10 8 . For this example's sake let's say they have no flush draw anymore. Once again you consider your fold equity. You bet again for 3/4s of the pot and once again they float on their draw. The river comes J so the board is 4 A 10 8 J which actually gives them both second best pair and the best hand. However, once again you consider FOLD EQUITY. You bet somewhere in the range of 1/2-2/3s of the pot again. And by this time the idea is hammered into the villain's skull. "This guy has an Ace!" Considering the ranges being repped by you the villain barring any absolutely moronic moves MUST fold unless obviously he has an impeccable read on you. Based one the action in this hand there is almost no way that he can think he is beating your range as you have repped a strong hand from start to finish. Therefore he folds. TADA! you have won a hand via FOLD EQUITY.

    Now that obviously may not be the best example but if illustrates my point well. Your image is vital to your success. And to go with your tight stats it is the perfect play. Considering your winrate at show down you must be showing down the best hand on a fairly regular basis and often times showing down strong starting hands that didn't hit the flop or got out drawn. Therefore, your opponents MUST at least subconsciously understand that you play strong hands. That is why you play your strong hands strong and why when you have reads on people you can play even your weaker hands strongly and get away with it.

    Holy crap, sorry for the novel but I got really into it lol; and i got into it because I think I was recently in your rut of playing scared. Once a bad beat hits you sometimes you take the foot off the gas pedal too much and end up going from a TAG player to a tight and passive player. Once you become tight and passive you just don't have a chance to be profitable in the long run unless you run like a god. Hope that helps


    PS. These are just my observations and may not be 100% correct so I would like to finish by directing you to an article by sauce that truly changed how I look at the game.
    http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....6-Max-NLHE.php
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  46. #46
    Maybe it would help if you filtered all the hands where you lost like 30bbs or more and did not go to showdown.
  47. #47
    I kind of suck at reading stats but the W$WSF stat is not that bad. It could definitely be higher but 40 is okay.

    So the problem might be on the turn/river.
  48. #48
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    Wow man 14/10 at 6max? I get completely ripped apart for playing 18/14. You obviously don't want to just loosen up, you have to know why. The first thing I look for is steal%. 21% is far too low. You have to realize most regs are playing way suboptimal where sometimes raising ATC will be +EV because they just fold preflop so much. I'm not saying this is the most EV (it can be vs. some) but a +EV play is > oEV play.

    Your flop cbet is 60%. Mine was like 55% and I got berated as well. Recently, I turned that up to around 75% and try to get it to 70-80%. There's a lot to do with style so some will say it's better to have a lower frequency but in 6max I'd opt to go higher. FWIW, and this has helped me the most regarding a higher cbet%, you CAN (c)bet when no worse will call and no better will fold. Picking up the dead money will compensate this. Don't overdue this but there are some spots that I do this with.

    Fold more to 3bets. You only do so 60% of the time. You can fold basically 70% of the time without them really exploiting you.

    Speaking of 3bets, your 3bet% is far from optimal. You should create a preflop game that creates the highest EV of all total actions (Shania). To do this, 3bet bluffing in the right spots with the right hands will definitely help your winrate I guarantee it. I am writing an article on the calling part of the preflop game but I believe it will be very helpful to you. Look for certain reads/stats that let you know if you can 3bet more either as a bluff or for value. Remember, against some you can 3bet a hand like A7s or KJs for value. Figure out against who and why.

    I'll be honest I don't really know much about the other stats to give advice. What I can tell you is that once you increase your cbet%, stealing% and 3bet bluffing% your red line won't be as low.
  49. #49
    I really appreciate all the help.

    I decided to play tonight and play aggressive and tight. Duh, go figure. I decided I was just going to play poker and have fun. I didn't look at the cashier every 30 minutes. I didn't look at HEM every 15 minutes.

    I have sticky notes all over my monitor
    "B/F > C/C"
    "ABC"
    "Fold when you're beat"
    "Don't Bluff"
    etc.

    I played as 16/10/3.5 with 4% 3bet and 28% ATS. I did not pay any attention to my stats. I just played.

    This is typical of every session since 12/11. It's getting so rediculous it's almost funny.

    Everybody say "Don't be results oriented"

    I'm gonna go broke if I don't look at the results.

    Total of 1000 hands today

    -AA a total of 8 times for a net of a whopping +$1.20
    -Hit a set 2% of the time
    -AK a total of 14 times and hit A or K once and then the board was AAK so I got no action
    -KK a total of 6 times and net of +$1.10 and this was one of my sets
    -Hit FD exactly 0 times
    -Hit OESD exactly 0 times

    And when I lost, I lost big. My TP lost to quads twice, sets twice, and once to a runner, runner straight flush.

    I know it's a small sample but it's not really as this has been happening every day for over 2 weeks.

    After all was said and done I was at -5 BIs for 10NL.

    At least I got $35 in RB today. Drop in the bucket

    It has been suggested that I move back to PS. What would be the point of this?

    /rant

    Some hands for shits and giggles:

    Hand 1

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    BB ($8.45)
    UTG ($5.57)
    MP ($12)
    CO ($11.80)
    Hero (Button) ($9.85)
    SB ($3.39)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, J
    2 folds, CO bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.10

    Flop: ($0.65) 9, K, 10 (3 players)
    BB checks, CO bets $0.70, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, CO calls $1.30

    Turn: ($4.65) 5 (2 players)
    CO checks, Hero bets $3, CO calls $3

    River: ($10.65) 5 (2 players)
    CO bets $6.60 (All-In), Hero calls $4.65 (All-In)

    Total pot: $19.95 | Rake: $1.33

    Results below:
    Hero had Q, J (straight, King high).
    CO had A, 9 (two pair, nines and fives).
    Outcome: Hero won $18.62


    So far so good

    Hand 2

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP ($18.77)
    Button ($10.30)
    Hero (SB) ($9.90)
    BB ($33.69)
    UTG ($12.99)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K
    1 fold, MP bets $0.40, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, MP calls $0.80

    Flop: ($2.50) A, 6, 8 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.50, MP calls $1.50

    Turn: ($5.50) 4 (2 players)
    Hero bets $2.10, MP calls $2.10

    River: ($9.70) 10 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP checks

    Total pot: $9.70 | Rake: $0.64

    Results below:
    Hero had K, K (one pair, Kings).
    MP had Q, J (high card, Ace).
    Outcome: Hero won $9.06


    Hands 1 and 2 were my two biggest pots of the night.

    Hand 3

    25/12/2 over 200 hands 6% 3bet and aggro of 4.5. Stealing blinds like crazy.

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($10.53)
    MP ($8.70)
    Hero (Button) ($9.85)
    SB ($13.68)
    BB ($12.93)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q
    2 folds, Hero bets $0.30, SB raises to $1.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.80

    Flop: ($2.30) 2, 2, 5 (2 players)
    SB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $12.58 (All-In), Hero calls $4.75 (All-In)

    Turn: ($19.80) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

    River: ($19.80) K (2 players, 2 all-in)

    Total pot: $19.80 | Rake: $1.32

    Results below:
    Hero had Q, Q (two pair, Queens and twos).
    SB had A, A (two pair, Aces and twos).
    Outcome: SB won $18.48


    Hand 4

    27/4/1.5 over 100 hands

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($19.31)
    BB ($14.55)
    Hero (UTG) ($9.70)
    MP ($1.38)
    Button ($8.38)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
    1 fold, Hero bets $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.20

    Flop: ($0.65) Q, 6, 2 (2 players)
    SB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.80, SB calls $1.30

    Turn: ($4.25) 7 (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $8, Hero calls $4.60 (All-In)

    River: ($19.45) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: $19.45 | Rake: $1.29

    Results below:
    SB had 2, 2 (three of a kind, twos).
    Hero had K, K (one pair, Kings).
    Outcome: SB won $18.16



    Hand 5

    no stats and no reads

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($44.15)
    MP ($10.15)
    Hero (CO) ($9.70)
    Button ($12.62)
    SB ($11.51)
    BB ($10.35)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with A, Q
    2 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

    Flop: ($0.90) J, 6, 6 (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $0.60, SB calls $0.60

    Turn: ($2.10) A (2 players)
    SB bets $1.17, Hero calls $1.17

    River: ($4.44) J (2 players)
    SB bets $3.61, Hero calls $3.61

    Total pot: $11.66 | Rake: $0.77

    Results below:
    SB had J, J (four of a kind, Jacks).
    Hero had A, Q (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
    Outcome: SB won $10.89


    hand 6

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    CO ($4.26)
    Button ($26.44)
    SB ($10)
    BB ($13.32)
    Hero (UTG) ($10.35)
    MP ($1.87)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
    Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, CO calls $0.40, 3 folds

    Flop: ($0.95) 10, 2, 6 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.70, CO raises to $1.40, Hero raises to $5, CO calls $2.46 (All-In)

    Turn: ($8.67) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    River: ($8.67) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: $8.67 | Rake: $0.57

    Results below:
    Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and sixes).
    CO had 6, 6 (four of a kind, sixes).
    Outcome: CO won $8.10
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  50. #50
    How the hell can you have 28% ATS but have a PFR of 10%.
    Do you fold all CO hands? Do you Isolate?
  51. #51
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    Hand 2: 3bet bigger OOP. Check flop. As played check turn.

    Hand 3: Why are we raising the flop?

    Hand 4: Meh fine because he can a ton of Qx hands

    Hand 5: Fold river

    Hand 6: Cooler
  52. #52
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    Quote Originally Posted by clvacva
    How the hell can you have 28% ATS but have a PFR of 10%.
    Do you fold all CO hands? Do you Isolate?
    This too.

    In hand 1, without knowing too much about the donk, did iso 3betting cross your mind? I'd probably only do it suited but I mean any way to open you up preflop is great and against donks is probably the best way to start.
  53. #53
    Hand 3 raising is whatever

    Board: 2s 2c 5s
    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 49.569% 47.86% 01.70% 13268 472.50 { QdQh }
    Hand 1: 50.431% 48.73% 01.70% 13507 472.50 { TT+, AsKs, AsQs, KsQs }

    Thats what his b/3b range might be. Also villains 3bets is 6% so he might even have lower pocketpairs. Add 99 and hero is slightly ahead.

    Hand 5 I also think it's a fold. Villain could have played 6x,Jx or a bdf flush draw like that
    Kind of hard for villain to have wore Ax in his range since As is on board and you have the A of diamonds
  54. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Have you always played 6max or did you start out playing fullring? How many tables do you play?

    You're way too tight pf, 16/12 is going to create an image that any half-decent player will avoid paying off, whilst also preventing you from effectively isolating fish and exploiting them.

    I'm looking at my stats over 60k hands at PS $25nl last year, this is from while I was learning to play and I ran something ridic over the entire sample like 18/14 but 20/16 over the final 20k hands when I made a strong effort to open up more at that time. My winrate naturally improved as my game did. I had realised my game was was boring, obvious and I had stagnated. I think you're at that point now where the next step in your game is to open up.

    One thing that stood out about your positional stats is at $25nl your early position WTSD% is massively low, given how tight you are in that position, meaning your range should be value orientated, I'd expect you to be taking a lot of that range to showdown even over a smallish sample.
  55. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    You definitely need to start posting hands that didn't get to showdown too.

    Hand 1 - Vs a minraise pf this is fine, whole hand is fine.

    Hand 2 - 3bet to $1.40 or even $1.60 if you think he's gonna call. Don't barrel the turn, and whilst your bet might look like thin value it actually looks more like you didn't know whether to bet or check and kinda ended up halfway.

    Hand 3 - By raising the flop you are allowing him to play his entire range perfectly, if you think this guy can put money in with air or worse pairs, call and let him keep betting.

    Hand 4 - When I'm playing well I can consider folding the turn, any other time I call. It's not a huge mistake to call but I feel like villains range getting to the turn isn't super wide and branches off into "check/call" and "check/raise", and there's probably not a lot of Qs in "check/raise".

    Hand 5 - Played fine until river, now fold. Even if he did spaz out with a J on the turn he just outdrew us.

    Hand 6 - He's not even a halfstack, you have aces, get the money in and don't worry about it.

    Definitely post some non-showdown hands.

    FWIW, if you considered making a video with commentary 2-4 tabling, I'd be happy to find the time to review it. I feel like doing something like that and talking through your thought processes, or even lack of at times, could help you a lot.
  56. #56
    I agree with Dex. One of the best things for you at this point might be to either make a video with commentary or to have someone watch you play or even have you watch someone play via teamviewer.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  57. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by clvacva
    How the hell can you have 28% ATS but have a PFR of 10%.
    Do you fold all CO hands? Do you Isolate?
    I looked at it wrong. See stats for this particular session.



    Fold all CO hands? No. When I was playing 25NL I would try to steal from CO and get 3bet a helluva lot so I would fold.

    I can't make a video as Cantasia has expired.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  58. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Dex
    Have you always played 6max or did you start out playing fullring? How many tables do you play?
    Always 6max. I played FR for about 1k hands and got bored with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dex
    You're way too tight pf, 16/12 is going to create an image that any half-decent player will avoid paying off, whilst also preventing you from effectively isolating fish and exploiting them....
    Ive been told I play too tight many times. I've tried to loosen up many times but it always ends up losing my ass so I revert back to the tight play.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  59. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Donachello
    I agree with Dex. One of the best things for you at this point might be to either make a video with commentary or to have someone watch you play or even have you watch someone play via teamviewer.
    I have teamviewer and skype and this is a great idea.

    When?
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  60. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by kmind
    Hand 2: 3bet bigger OOP. Check flop. As played check turn.
    Why check turn and give him a free card? Are we usually behind here with the A on board?

    Quote Originally Posted by kmind
    Hand 3: Why are we raising the flop?
    I was hoping he would shove, which he did. He loved pps and suited cards.


    This was my 200k stats checkup:

    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...up-t87996.html

    Some people tell me to tighten up and others tell me to loosen up.
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  61. #61
    In June of this year I had $60 in my BR and was ready to quit.

    These are my stats since then for PS only.



    Similar stats for 25NL

    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  62. #62
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    Ok hand 3 needs detailed reads. You need to know WHEN he 3bets and with what. You just say 6% and he steals a lot. What kind of range does he have? What situations does he do this with? etc. This is crucial because you can give him clva's range or he could have one that's KK+/AsKs for getting it in which is gross. This is a leak of yours if you aren't thinking about this already. Adjust your HUD so that you can get more details if you are lazy or you can take intensive notes.

    About hand 2...yes his range should include a ton of A's after calling flop. This is why A hi boards are great to bluff with in 3bet pots. Refer to the Complimentary Theory of Poker thread in the 6max forum, but basically if this is a great board to bluff on then when shouldn't really be better here for value much. With KK this is true because his most likely holding doesn't have many outs plus he should fold worse and call with better allowing for a check.

    As for your thread, we want you to tighten up in EP but get looser as the positions get closer to the button, obv playing much looser on the button. A key thing to note is that each position should NOT loosen up in a linear range, the BU should be much great than the CO, UTG+1 and UTG. Also, don't read into what I say too much in that thread. My game has changed extensively.

    If you have KTs UTG do you raise btw?
  63. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by kmind
    Ok hand 3 needs detailed reads. You need to know WHEN he 3bets and with what. You just say 6% and he steals a lot. What kind of range does he have? What situations does he do this with? etc. This is crucial because you can give him clva's range or he could have one that's KK+/AsKs for getting it in which is gross. This is a leak of yours if you aren't thinking about this already. Adjust your HUD so that you can get more details if you are lazy or you can take intensive notes.
    I thought I was ahead but to be honest I really think I wanted to be ahead. Another leak.
    My HUD stats are:

    VPIP/PFR/AGG/hands
    Fold to steal/Steal/3bet/Fold to 3bet/Fold to cbet

    what should I add?

    I also don't have many stats on FTP players and I may be trusting them too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by kmind

    If you have KTs UTG do you raise btw?
    No. I've tightened up UTG and UTG+1. I no longer open AQ, KQ, AJ, KJ and def not KT from UTG. I do open AQs, KQs from UTG+1
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  64. #64
    One more thing I'd like to add.

    During my recent sessions I usually win a few hands early so I'm up 0.5 to 1 BIs early. Then I start getting tons of pp and AK. I miss a set with the pp so I give up on the hand. AK is hardly hitting so I check it down or I cbet, get called, and go to SD and lose to pp.

    I will occasionally call a 3bet in position with pp if villian is >100bb deep but I miss and give up.

    I've got to figure out how to find non showdown hands and I'll post them.

    Thanks for all the help. My OPs have never been "Hot"
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  65. #65
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    I can't really tell you what you all you should add specifically but I'd add some stats that give more detail. Like, for example, there's a 3bet to steal% stat. You may want to have this in at least your popups to get a feel on when they 3bet. This is just one example. I'm not HEM savvy so I can't help you on how to add that I had to get it done for a big price.

    I'd definitely add "cbet%". This helps you figure out how weak their cbetting ranges are. If he cbets 90% on a dry flop, should we be more inclined to raise with air? Should we be more inclined to raise with the nuts? Should we be inclined to raise more at all? Ask yourself this. FORM RANGES that helps your overall EV (Shania). I'll go ahead and answer this to help. Since he is cbetting a very wide range, we should look for dry boards (preferably Kxx or Qxx as opposed to Axx which is still ok to bluff but he has more A's in his range) to bluff when we have air. We should look to SLOWPLAY our monsters. Why? Because boom now our raising range on these flops are +EV! instead of oEV with folding and our calling range is +EV because we have monsters! I won't get into more details here but there are other actions that affect our flop play like how often he double barrels but for now this should help. I'll explain what I feel like we should be doing PREFLOP in this situation in an article I'm posting soon.

    If you don't have many stats, take NOTES NOTES NOTES. Figure out what their doing with their ranges and figure out how to EXPLOIT that. Exploitation is huge in NL. Playing against 16/10's are my favorite because to exploit them all we have to do is call preflop with implied type of hands and fold whenever we miss on the flop. If we bet and they call then we can cbet all our air (since they mostly have PPs) and slowplay our monsters (they money will go in regardless on the turn/river).

    The KTs was a trick question. Everything depends on the table dynamic! Now, I don't want to confuse you because having a set tight range like you do is great to start out with. BUT, let's say there's a huge donk in the blinds. If the other 3 people who would have position on you are tightish, we can ISOLATE the fish in the blinds and have position on them with a hand with plenty of value. I hope you understand this. Basically, you need to look at who's left to act at your table and see if you can open your ranges up or down more depending on who you're facing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    During my recent sessions I usually win a few hands early so I'm up 0.5 to 1 BIs early. Then I start getting tons of pp and AK. I miss a set with the pp so I give up on the hand. AK is hardly hitting so I check it down or I cbet, get called, and go to SD and lose to pp.
    Can't help you there. I am working on this too. I was going to post about this in my own thread. A midstakes reg once told me that if you are downswinging just go ahead and quit as it helps you psychologically feel better. He's a doctor in real life so I trust him and I've been doing this recently with success. Sure after awhile we have to let the training wheels fall off and keep going though.

    You should rarely call PPs in 3bet pots. You say >100bb but I'd make it was much greater and they HAVE to have a tight range. Remember that. If they are capable of bluffing our implied odds go wayyyy down and we don't want to turn our bluffing range into hands that have 2 outs when called.

    I suck at typing so I'm sure I misspelled crap or left out words, sorry.
  66. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Kmind, that's a really good post with some concepts that Sasquatch should definitely spend some time considering.

    Sasquatch, if you want to show non-showdown hands, in HEM go to cash games > reports > filter > edit > more filters and select "saw showdown = false", click add this filter, then save and close. Now show all hands and filter by $ or bbs to show the red lines for hands you didn't win, biggest first. Post anything you find interesting.

    I think your non-showdown line definitely highlights that you tend to give up on hands too quickly, say you have AdKs oop vs the standard passive/calls a lot donk that spends half his time going to showdown with you in small pots the other half dodging your AA because this time you bet two streets hard. Flop is 2d3s5c, you cbet they call. Turn is Qh. Do you bet again or start trying to check your way to showdown? What about Th? Jh? These are the sort of spots where even one more barrel can be the difference between winning the hand or grimacing when he turns up with A3s, 57s or 88 after it checks down. He doesn't fold when you have AA because God hates you enough to tell him you have AA, he folds because he's seen you give up enough pots to comprehend you have a decent hand when you keep betting, even despite his own ineptitude. This is the first step to merging and having a more seamless range, which is going to make your game slightly more challenging (and fun) but it's going to be a lot harder for anyone else you play with. It's by making people make decisions you let them make mistakes.

    Btw I'm not looking to do any live sweats but if you do get some software sorted I'm still happy to do a video review as long as you provide commentary.
  67. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    Quote Originally Posted by Dex
    You're way too tight pf, 16/12 is going to create an image that any half-decent player will avoid paying off, whilst also preventing you from effectively isolating fish and exploiting them....
    Ive been told I play too tight many times. I've tried to loosen up many times but it always ends up losing my ass so I revert back to the tight play.
    I just looked over the 200k hand check up thread you linked to to compare with your stats in this thread. I know it's confusing when some people tell you to fold more, others tell you to play more hands. Poker is such a situational game, from your hand to villain to your position.

    It's pretty clear to see the major difference between the 200k checkup and now is you've made good progress in making the gap between vpip and pfr smaller. This gives you better fundamentals to work with. The next step is to increase your pfr, you can do this by taking some of the hands you would limp behind vs one limper and isolation raising. As your position moves closer to the blinds, isolate wider. So, in UTG+1 we would isolate an UTG limper with a much smaller range than when we isolate an UTG+1 limper from the co or btn. This is because the closer we get to the blinds, and the less people we have to raise vs, the less likely we will encounter lots of action. This gives you instant dead money to win plus a nice little pot to take down with a cbet.
  68. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    Quote Originally Posted by Donachello
    I agree with Dex. One of the best things for you at this point might be to either make a video with commentary or to have someone watch you play or even have you watch someone play via teamviewer.
    I have teamviewer and skype and this is a great idea.

    When?
    I might not be the most qualified person to do this but I'd be happy to do it anyway as I am sure any input could be helpful. I'll be back in my dorm with good internet and TV and skype on my computer in a week. I'll post on here and you can add me on skype then and we can work it out.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  69. #69
    Today I made a 10NL video of my play for about 45 minutes. I will be going out of town tomorrow for a few days and I will not be playing poker while I'm gone. All comments are welcome.

    This was my third try making the video. First try, my wife kept coming in to talk to me about blah, blah. Second try the neighbors decided to stop by. Finally finished it on the third.

    Sorry for the heavy breathing. I had to almost put the mic in my mouth.

    Thanks for the help guys

    Please specify the time in the video for hands you make comments about.

    http://www.filefront.com/15231341/10NL-FT-122709.wmv
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
  70. #70
    BankItDrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    8,291
    Location
    Losing Prop Bets
    I watched the video.

    How long have you been playing 6max? Experience with FR?
  71. #71
    JKDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    6,780
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    You got a lot of problems mate.

    Most seem to stem for one in particular so you should work on that before the others.

    Namely: putting people on ranges!

    Throughout the video i hear alot of level 0 (what do i have?) type of thinking as well as a kind of starting hand chart philosophy when it comes to opening and 3betting. If you want to crush 10nl, and i mean really crush it, you need to get to level 1 (what does he have?) thinking.

    The results that will follow that are
    -better instinctive betsizing
    -better postflop play, especially in position
    -better intuition and play in spots where we're raised
    -better preflop play in terms of blind stealing and isolation

    Now these results are each hard by themselves, but you have no hope of understanding how to do any of them unless you can really get a solid grasp of putting people on ranges.

    Robb and ISF and many others have made a few posts on how to do this better/more effectively, and some books are out there too. Ideally, you would also respond to threads in the BC and blogs and everywhere appropriate as well as start your own to really nail this down.

    other thing: make notes immediately after the hand ends. you marked one guy as raising AJo but it was actually AJs (small mistake, but maybe the next one will be bigger, who knows) and also make notes on hands you arent involved with as well. For instance, there was an early hand where a guy minraised K3o and called a large 3bet and then proceeded to bluff postflop. This is something that wasnt even noticed in the video.

    Hope this was helpful, good luck sir
  72. #72
    BankItDrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    8,291
    Location
    Losing Prop Bets
    I didn't have a clue where to start JKDS, good post.

    Put dem on a range sir!
  73. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Hey Sasquatch. As promised I'm looking over the video. I'm giving my comments on hands as they happen. I'll post commentary for the first 20 minutes now and hopefully that prompts some discussion for you, and I'll post the second half another time so there isn't an information overload!

    To start, I just want to say thanks for taking the time to make a video. I know it's not necessarily an easy thing to do, opening yourself up for (constructive) criticism. So credit for that, it's good you're doing what you can to improve.

    Are the interuptions you had during making the video an indication that you often play stuck for time? If so, do you think that has an impact on the quality of your game?

    Table 1, KdQd, 00:41/40:34 - In the CO you can open to 3x, 4x is fine if you're playing a tight value orientated game but if you're going to be opening a wide range in the CO/BTN then 3x is fine. Vs a station 3 streets of value is fine. If we had a read villain bets when checked to, that could be a river consideration but as we don't, well played. You did mention a hand you were behind (you didn't think he had AQ), but what could he have here? Flush draws, straight draws, pretty much any Queen like Q7s+, Q9o+, JT, etc. River is a good bet/fold.

    The immediate hand after this was the Table 1 resident donkey minraising K3o, calling a 4x 3bet and bluffing badly. This is definitely something you can talk about as it happens and not just about your game, and definitely be making a note of things like this because it could help you play against villain later on. You pointed out a couple of times that vyadzmak opens to 10bbs or more, but in this hand he minraised K3o. So, villain could be randomly clicking buttons or he raises big hands big and small hands small but can't let go of them either way.

    Table 2, 6:21/40:34 - You are reviewing a hand that happened between two villains at your table, good! Checking previous hand histories is a good habit to have, even if you're just looking to see what some recent hands were and not any hand in particular. You note that villain raised 87o, but from what position? That is a solid piece of information you missed. What were villain's actions postflop with the hand? Played strong? Weakly? Below are the notes you could make in future:

    WeChillin: Open btn 3.5x w/ 87o, flats donk from sb 2/3 psb flop, call 2/3 psb lead turn, c/b river 2dTd7s9h2c

    ryann3: 40bb stack flats AQo vs btn 3.5x open, donk flop 2/3 psb, lead turn 2/3 psb, give up river 2dTd7s9h2c

    So what can you do with this information in future? Well, we have reason to believe WeChillin's range for calling 2 streets after raising pf is weak hands and draws. We now have information on the kind of hand ryannn3 is willing to donk multiple streets with.

    Table 2, 6:39/40:34 - WeChillin 3bets a CO halfstack open from the SB with TT, and ships over a min4bet. Note!

    Table 1, 7:42/40:34 - You raise Ah4h 4x into two tighties and a shorty with less than 40bb. Did you even notice the shorty? Raise to 3x here, making it cheaper to steal the blinds and less expensive if shorty pushes. You noted that villain only had 7 hands at the table but didn't mention this was the first he had played. I don't think it's a terrible cbet, it's our first pot with villain, you have a backdoor flush draw and an over, but we can definitely shut down on the turn. Given we are going to be giving up a lot of turns when called, I'd suggest betting a little less on the flop like 55-60c. I know it doesn't seem like a big difference, but saving a big blind here and there will do wonders for your winrate.

    After the hand, you mentioned you open Ah4h mostly for 2 pair or the flush. But a lot of the value you get from this hand is using your image as the pfr to cbet and take down a lot of flops. You may understand that but you didn't mention it.

    Table 1, 33, 9:18/40:34 - You fold 33, saying you won't open it UTG. I'll refer you to the awesome sauce 123 "Super-Simple Guide to Beating Games Post-UIGEA". If you haven't read this before, read it. If you have read it, read it again. Open any pocket pair UTG, ESPECIALLY on what is a pretty tight table now. Raising UTG you get to rep a much bigger hand, whilst also having a disguised set.

    After the hand, you consider opening a new table. You should definitely do this because bar a 22b fish the table has dried up. You didn't though.

    Table 2, QJo, 10:00/40:34 - Good raise from this position, though on a tight table 3x would suffice. You can cbet this flop, but I like checking back and putting in a delayed cbet on the turn as by that point if we can bet, villain has checked to us twice. If we don't think we're being bluffed often we can fold to a bet, and if we think people are betting their decent hands we can fold unless checked to. What kind of hand do you think someone calling 28% of the time could have pf? Stove it for a general idea. How much of that range gives up on the flop? Small pocket pairs, a lot of broadways, etc. So that leaves straight draws, top pair, mid pair, 99, 77, things like that. It's upto you to constantly whittle down villain's range from your opening assumption. Stove your hand vs a range like the above for villain on the flop, the better your equity the happier you should feel about firing again.

    Table 1, Ad4d, 11:29/40:34 - You missed the previous hand where BahamaPo stacked off with A-hi on a paired board, or at least didn't note you saw it. I don't like calling here. Villain is short, we don't make a lot of money when we hit a good hand, we're in a meh spot if we hit something weak or nothing at all, and villain just lost a 26bb stack the previous hand trying to blow someone off a paired board after raising pf. You said villain cbet less than half pot (into 3 callers), but he actually bet 2/3 pot. The pot amount is above the flop cards, "total pot" underneath includes any bets in that round. I assume this is just a lack of familiarity with the FT software.

    Table 2, 5s8s, 12:07/40:34 - ryann3 limps into you. From our previous experience (see the 87o vs AQo hand) we know he's not a good player. Villain likely has a wide range for open limping the sb. When he checks to you, bet 15c into the 19c pot. You have the best hand a lot of time but most of the cards left to fall will be overcards, so if you want to win this pot (2bb, think of your winrate ) then bet now. There's no harm in betting weak TP, or a second/third pair hand blind vs blind after you're limped into. If you're not betting these on the flop a lot you're losing value. Keep an eye on this villain to see if he open limps the sb a lot.

    I was going to note that you aren't paying enough attention to the tables if you missed back to back quads between the same two players, but you went back and reviewed hand histories so that's awesome. Keep doing that, the quieter things are, the more you should be looking. The more information we have on players, the better we can play against them.

    Table 1, As2s, 16:00/40:34 - You referred to IncredibleBud as a limper but he actually posted in the CO which isn't a sign of a good player. Limping in isn't awful, but given IncredibleBud posted and then checked, we can assume his hand isn't great. We know zergmiky isn't a super loose fish, so even though we're in the SB this isn't a bad spot to isolate raise over Bud's post because we're gonna pick up the post and blinds a lot of the time. You said "this is why I limp in, I don't usually hit" but remember that we make a lot of our value from times we don't hit too. Don't think about how often we hit as it won't have a positive effect on your game.

    Table 2, 99, 16:40/40:34 - You fold here correctly stating you aren't good here, but next time, list the kind of hands you think NLDestroyer, who based on stats and name we can assume is a standard regular, can have. And then list some hands Kotofej could raise. What parts of NLDestroyer's range can continue and how best to play it? Try to think pretty deeply into hands, not just your own but interesting spots like this as it will help a lot.

    In the above hand, it turned out Kotofej had raised 2PTK on the flop but gave up on the turn and river. NLDestroyer called the flop raise with an overpair, checked turn to villain and failed to valuebet a blank river. These are all noteworthy. You did make a note on Kotojef but it could have been more detailed, I don't think AJs or AJo makes a huge difference in how they play it but it helps to be in the habit of keeping even the small details correct, and you should definitely note what happened to the action after villain raised the flop.

    Also noteworthy - zergmiky from table 1 has just sat down at table 2. Note that he's a multitabler. Do the same for NLDestroyer. Identify these players. You can also note that zergmiky olimped Ac3c in the sb vs a tight bb and didn't try to take the pot down.

    Table 1 - Jc9s, 17:01/40:34 - It's folded to you on the btn and you fold. This is a standard open vs a super tight BB and an SB that will fold a lot but we have position on when called. Vs two super loose fishtards, then you may not be comfortable opening here, but vs these two villains raise 3x all day every day.

    Table 1 - ThKd, 18:23/40:34 - I know we're in early position but this table is playing pretty tight, you can definitely open 3x here. The tighter a table gets, the more you should open up, and if people start playing back or the table loosens up then readjust.

    Table 1, 19:59/40:34 - You still haven't changed this table, and you haven't adjusted to how tight it is either. You note that the table is nitty again but say you'll stay "just because". Why? If the table isn't good enough, find another one.

    Table 1, 20:33/40:34 - It's folded to you on the btn and you fold A5o stating that villains never fold to a steal. I don't think this is true as I haven't seen many raises on in against them on this table, but if it were true, then A5o is ahead of their range isn't it? 3x this.
  74. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    179
    Location
    Bringing the mind home.
    Seems working on dem ranges is the common consensus
  75. #75
    Thanks folks. This is the kind of stuff I need. I'm about to leave to go out of town so I'll read these when I get back.

    Ranges? I knew this was a problem hence:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    ...

    Goals:

    ...
    -Get better at ranges. Suggestions welcome on how to practice this.
    Hopefully there'll be more comments when I get back.

    I also noticed how "down" I sound during the vid. Jeez man. Are you that miserable playing?

    Back in a few days...
    "Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    ...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •