10 year old with 4 guns....

[PapalRage]

Boy Who Killed Mom Could Be Released at 21 - ABC News


This story is sad but come on, who gives a 10 year old 4 lethal weapons and expects it to end well? *Sigh*

[bigred]

One shot to the head, efficient little bastard

[b-rabbit]

hm...lesson learned?

[Lukie]

if you don't know better than to not murder someone by the time you are 10 years old, you're a hopeless waste of life. lock him up and throw away the key.

even if it wasn't guns, most of us were exposed to lethal weapons growing up (e.g. kitchen knives) and yet we didn't kill our parents over an argument.

[wufwugy]

if you don't know better than to not murder someone by the time you are 10 years old, you're a hopeless waste of life. lock him up and throw away the key.

even if it wasn't guns, most of us were exposed to lethal weapons growing up (e.g. kitchen knives) and yet we didn't kill our parents over an argument.

Dude, what?

Kids his age are incredibly irrational. There are many, many explanations as to why he could very easily not have understood what he was doing. In fact, we know he didn't understand the implications. Zero ten year olds on the planet understand implications of these kinds of actions in the ways that adults do, and when they conform it's largely due to how they're being raised and such

The kid could so easily have just thought that the "gun solves problems" in the same way that pushing his sister when he's mad "solves problems"

Besides, you can guarantee that any kid who is capable of getting his hands on a loaded gun has terrrrrrrrrrible parents. Torturing the kid for the rest of his life is not even close to a solution

[bigred]

My research suggests that Wufwugy makes some good points.

[bigred]

BTW, the kid did kill his mom. I bet there was 3 minutes of anger and satisfaction followed by a lifetime of agony, grief, and regret.

[Ash256]

At least locking him in an institution full of male psychos with no means to acquire life skills will have sorted him out. I look forward to him getting a nice job in an office somewhere and settling down with a pleasant girl.

[PapalRage]

Besides, you can guarantee that any kid who is capable of getting his hands on a loaded gun has terrrrrrrrrrible parents. Torturing the kid for the rest of his life is not even close to a solution

I'm not in favor of giving this fucked up kid life in prison, but if I understood the article correctly he will be free at 21 if he has no (violent?) problems in juvi. Doubt the kid will be a well functioning member of society at 21 no matter how he gets sentenced/ treated tho. Makes me think of Garden State, then I remember that this kid kinda had to intend to kill. Can 10 yr olds even have intent??

[a500lbgorilla]

At least locking him in an institution full of male psychos with no means to acquire life skills will have sorted him out. I look forward to him getting a nice job in an office somewhere and settling down with a pleasant girl.

Sometimes some of us fall through the cracks. It's a damn shame that it'll happen to such a good kid though...

[wufwugy]

I'm not in favor of giving this fucked up kid life in prison, but if I understood the article correctly he will be free at 21 if he has no (violent?) problems in juvi. Doubt the kid will be a well functioning member of society at 21 no matter how he gets sentenced/ treated tho. Makes me think of Garden State, then I remember that this kid kinda had to intend to kill. Can 10 yr olds even have intent??

He didn't have intent to kill, not in any way that adults do. The kid is freaking ten years old.

Adults are fucking retards. We don't let ten year olds see boobies or hear swearing because their minds are too immature to "handle it", yet we then act like they are fully capable of handling themselves in this kind of situation

He needs to be raised well. That is it. There is zero evidence that kids can be sociopaths, yet enormous evidence that treating kids like criminals and sociopaths is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even something as "merciful" as juvi until he's 21 is awful. He needs good fucking guidance, not his entire life to be defined by something he did when he was ten fucking years old. Long term punishment for any aged adult is even awful, but for a child it's...I have no words to describe how bad it is

The entire system is shit. Adults are too fucked in the brain to realize that these kinds of things are a product of the system they've created failing, and isn't solved by screwing up children's lives


And the crazy fucking thing is that criminals aren't somehow fucked up people, they're people who have been fucked up. There isn't some identifiable genetic characteristic that makes people criminals. We need to stop punishing people for being the ones who get screwed by the shit system we've designed, and start fixing that system in the first place

Like with child molesters. In the US we say lock them up for life, but in countries that don't hate themselves, they've been discovering that the molesters are being reformed as they simply change the system the molesters live in. People aren't bad, systems are bad.

[Lukie]

ninja delete

need to think about this some more

[Jack Sawyer]

Great, kids with guns!

That will always end up in good ways!

[wufwugy]

Oh damn. I just happened across your posts too, was going to respond


I do want to say one thing at least, about the "people aren't bad" thing


There is next to zero reason to believe that people are naturally more or less good or bad than other people. We're not that genetically different, and the areas in which we are different are really superficial. Things like slight differences that change skin color or disease. With regards to criminality, we have found exactly zero genetic explanation. Even with sociopathy, I'm pretty sure we've never discovered a genetic explanation

What we do know, however, is that nearly all the differences among humans, especially mental differences, are a product of environment. This isn't a crazy idea because, well, it matches the data, but also it syncs up with everything else in every science imaginable from biology to physics to what have you. There are no good or bad hydrogen molecules, there are only hydrogen molecules whose environment has provoked them into life-giving water or life-killing nukes. The same molecules, different environments, antipodal results.

Humans are pretty much the same way. Even with things like IQ, which we used to think was hugely genetic, recent research is showing that it's not, it's mainly environmental. Criminality is the same way. There are no naturally bad people who have bad feelings and wanna do bad things, there are only people who are on the wrong side of their environment, and they become many things because of it. They were no more "bad" than anybody else upon their birth, but that doesn't stop certain environments from bringing it out.

I believe it was a famous psychologist who once said something along the lines of, "Give me autonomy over a child, and I'll turn him into anything you want". And he was absolutely right. Humans do not vary in our capacity to love or hate or experience any emotion or pain or pleasure. What we vary in is how our environments nurture those feelings, and how they mold us.

The brain is not etched stone. Its neurons and synapses are a product of its own experiences. When those experiences are nurtured, no matter what they are, they solidify into who we are at that point. The same thing happens when experiences are not nurtured. The synapses simply disappear. If you don't think of a memory for a long enough time, the synapses that transmitted that memory stop existing, and you lose the memory forever. If you are paralyzed and you don't walk for long enough time, the synapses responsible for walking stop existing, and you quite literally do not know how to walk anymore

The same is true for everything the brain does. Every emotion you have, every experience you have molds who you are, but only for a period of time. If you stop a certain thing, your brain will reflect. If you start a new thing, your brain will reflect. If you do something your entire life, you're going to feel like that's who you are and it's not changeable, but that's not true. Even the most fundamental thing about who we are changes with enough neglect or provocation.

This is why we see all the differences in the world. Men have been shown to forget how to tell time after spending long enough in solitary confinement. If something that basic is nurtured, then how could we expect momentary actions to not be nurtured?

Also, keep in mind that criminality is a modern phenomenon, not a human phenomenon. Criminality didn't much exist for the hundreds of thousands of years that our hominid ancestors were hunter/gatherers. It didn't exist because it couldn't because ecological carrying capacities were too poor to nurture the dead weight. Sure there were levels of selfishness and cruelty, and even momentary destruction on the order of tribal warring and such, but nothing on the order of chronic criminality.

"Bad people" is the bed that civilization has made.

[mbiz]

Being young is all the more reason to try and rehab him asap, in that its more likely to succeed. and if he turned good, a kid that has been through shit like this could do a whole lot of good if he decides to.

also: clearly an issue with society as opposed to just the individual.

[spoonitnow]

The elementary school shooting teams around here typically start when you're about 10 or 11 years old and there hasn't been a single incident in over 25 years of the teams being formed in this county. Also it's popular here to bust your kid's ass when they don't want to bring in firewood after you tell them to. Just saying.

[spoonitnow]

The following is my rant at about 6 am after not having any sleep and reading more about what happened. There are a lot of instances of the words "fuck" and "bitch" with a lot of adjectives attached, so if that might upset you, just go ahead and skip the rest of this post.

I went ahead and watched some of this video here Chilling Confession: 10-Year-Old Admits to Killing His Mother - ABC News about it and I'm about to go on one. I'll be damned if his mom wasn't some dipshit fat white bitch living in a goddamn trailer up on a hill out in the middle of the woods. Then they show his sister/her daughter and the bitch's hair looks like red fucking kool aid and she's got 5 lbs of metal hanging out of her fucking face like what the fuck is going on here.

I can about guess what the fuck happened here. Little johnny whatthefuckever was sitting on his fat ass eating chips and playing playstation when his mom told him for the 5th fucking time that day to get off his fat ass and bring in some wood because she couldn't roll her fat ass off of the couch for 5 fucking minutes to do it. Then he was like NO MOM FUCK YOU GOD YOU STUPID BITCH and you know this isn't the first time that shit has happened because she's never disciplined the little fucker ever in his entire fucking life. I mean goddamn you don't have to beat the shit out of the bastard but do something like pull the fucking plug out of the wall jesus fucking christ. So then he's like ok fuck this I'm gonna blow that bitch's head off like on this game I was playing on my playstation, and he thinks that's okay because he's never been taught any fucking differently. He also had a few .22 rifles hanging on the wall in his bedroom and a shotgun too, which isn't inherently bad, but when you can't trust some stupid little bastard to get off his fat ass and do what you asked him to, what makes you think you can trust him with a fucking gun while you're asleep?

So news flash here boys and girls, when you let your goddamn kid run over you every fucking chance he gets, he will be capable of blowing your fucking head off in your sleep by the time he hits a double-digit age. Fuuuuuuuuuuck, why is this surprising to anyone? I mean shit the kid's sister and either her boyfriend or brother (or both I couldn't fucking tell) is there crying all like OMFG I DIDN'T KNOW LITTLE TIMMY SHITHEAD WAS GOING TO GROW UP TO BE FUCKED UP I MEAN NONE OF THE SIGNS WERE THERE you stupid fucking retarded ass goddamn bitch giving white trash a fucking bad name.

Edit: I'd like to just go ahead and state that yes, I think it's her own damn fault she got her brains blown out.

[Lukie]

is there anything particularly noteworthy in the video? i didn't watch it before and don't feel like depressing myself by watching it before i go to sleep

[WillburForce]

Stupid people, access to guns. oh dear.

[triumphant cracker]

he prolly was in the middle of playing black ops. can't be bothered when you are on a winning streak.

[Sasquach991]

The following is my rant at about 6 am after not having any sleep and reading more about what happened. There are a lot of instances of the words "fuck" and "bitch" with a lot of adjectives attached, so if that might upset you, just go ahead and skip the rest of this post.

I went ahead and watched some of this video here Chilling Confession: 10-Year-Old Admits to Killing His Mother - ABC News about it and I'm about to go on one. I'll be damned if his mom wasn't some dipshit fat white bitch living in a goddamn trailer up on a hill out in the middle of the woods. Then they show his sister/her daughter and the bitch's hair looks like red fucking kool aid and she's got 5 lbs of metal hanging out of her fucking face like what the fuck is going on here.

I can about guess what the fuck happened here. Little johnny whatthefuckever was sitting on his fat ass eating chips and playing playstation when his mom told him for the 5th fucking time that day to get off his fat ass and bring in some wood because she couldn't roll her fat ass off of the couch for 5 fucking minutes to do it. Then he was like NO MOM FUCK YOU GOD YOU STUPID BITCH and you know this isn't the first time that shit has happened because she's never disciplined the little fucker ever in his entire fucking life. I mean goddamn you don't have to beat the shit out of the bastard but do something like pull the fucking plug out of the wall jesus fucking christ. So then he's like ok fuck this I'm gonna blow that bitch's head off like on this game I was playing on my playstation, and he thinks that's okay because he's never been taught any fucking differently. He also had a few .22 rifles hanging on the wall in his bedroom and a shotgun too, which isn't inherently bad, but when you can't trust some stupid little bastard to get off his fat ass and do what you asked him to, what makes you think you can trust him with a fucking gun while you're asleep?

So news flash here boys and girls, when you let your goddamn kid run over you every fucking chance he gets, he will be capable of blowing your fucking head off in your sleep by the time he hits a double-digit age. Fuuuuuuuuuuck, why is this surprising to anyone? I mean shit the kid's sister and either her boyfriend or brother (or both I couldn't fucking tell) is there crying all like OMFG I DIDN'T KNOW LITTLE TIMMY SHITHEAD WAS GOING TO GROW UP TO BE FUCKED UP I MEAN NONE OF THE SIGNS WERE THERE you stupid fucking retarded ass goddamn bitch giving white trash a fucking bad name.

Edit: I'd like to just go ahead and state that yes, I think it's her own damn fault she got her brains blown out.

^this

esp. "she's never disciplined the little fucker ever in his entire fucking life"

I had a gun when I was 10 years old and it was in my room on a gun rack. It was a 16 gauge shotgun. BUT when my mom told me to do something, I did it or my dad would kick my ass. Probably no dad living in this trailer and I'm sure big sis and bro were a very good influences on him too. The 10 year old prob has a tat. If the guns weren't around he probably would have found a baseball bat and beat her to death.

[rong]

There isn't some identifiable genetic characteristic that makes people criminals.

So the sloped forehead/protuding lower jaw is wrong?

Dam! I've unfairly judged several people.

[spoonitnow]

Haha I forgot I made that post last night. 23 fucks is pretty solid.

[spoonitnow]

HOLY SHIT his sister saw it happen omfg that's nuts

[spoonitnow]

Also the little bastard had recently tried to hit his school principal with a dustpan LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[spoonitnow]

^this

esp. "she's never disciplined the little fucker ever in his entire fucking life"

I had a gun when I was 10 years old and it was in my room on a gun rack. It was a 16 gauge shotgun. BUT when my mom told me to do something, I did it or my dad would kick my ass. Probably no dad living in this trailer and I'm sure big sis and bro were a very good influences on him too. The 10 year old prob has a tat. If the guns weren't around he probably would have found a baseball bat and beat her to death.

In the video it talked about the parents having recently separated and the little bastard getting in all kinds of shit at school and his mom coming to his rescue to defend him. I lol'd so fucking hard

[wufwugy]

I don't wanna say it, but I think spoon would make a great dad

[wufwugy]

Also, one of my nieces is nine years old. Her parents are huge gun nuts, hunters, etc, and they have a very keen sense of safety. So their girl is being very strictly taught how to handle guns and all that

But she doesn't really understand them, I would say. She knows that they can be "bad", and is probably scared of simply pointing one at somebody, but I can guarantee that she has next to no concept of death or prison or suffering or even things like "people who hurt other people". She understands guns about as much as any nine year old could, but even if she were to shoot somebody, I wouldn't give her credit for understanding the implications. She wouldn't shoot somebody, however, because she has been taught that the last thing she should ever do is shoot somebody, and that sticks regardless of why. As spoon pointed out, the kid in the article could very easily just be a product of not having been taught shit, and taking things out in a rather natural way. It's just that this time it ended up like this


For this kid, prison isn't a solution, but neither is letting him go on the way his parents are doing it. It's a rock and hard place thing. The solution is for attention and things like psychiatric care and actual good parenting, education, etc. But the problem is that we don't much have those so in a way the option kinda does come into the sort of dichotomy that Lukie was thinking of where the two options are fuck him in the ass by turning him into a criminal or fuck others in the ass by letting him continue down the road that his circumstances will have

[Chelle]

I don't wanna say it, but I think spoon would make a great dad

This scares me.

Also - spoon is right.

[HarleyGuy13]

And the crazy fucking thing is that criminals aren't somehow fucked up people, they're people who have been fucked up. There isn't some identifiable genetic characteristic that makes people criminals. We need to stop punishing people for being the ones who get screwed by the shit system we've designed, and start fixing that system in the first place

Like with child molesters. In the US we say lock them up for life, but in countries that don't hate themselves, they've been discovering that the molesters are being reformed as they simply change the system the molesters live in. People aren't bad, systems are bad.

Wufwugy I was totally with you until I read this. Your point about "criminals aren't somehow fucked up people" is only partially correct. Many studies have shown that the majority of serious criminals do in deed have genetic characteristics which. Now there are many minor criminals out there who are victims of there surroundings but they don't grow into killers and rapist.

Then you say child molesters are being reformed. BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. Have you ever talked with a child molester? Have you ever had one look you in the eye and tell you he can control his urges? NO FUCKING WAY. Sir I have participated in numerous interviews and interrogations of sex offenders of all types. They are truly fucked up my friend and they will tell you they CANNOT control it. The unfortunate part here is the huge % of sex offenders who were victims of sex crimes themselves, it's staggering!

[wufwugy]

Wufwugy I was totally with you until I read this. Your point about "criminals aren't somehow fucked up people" is only partially correct. Many studies have shown that the majority of serious criminals do in deed have genetic characteristics which. Now there are many minor criminals out there who are victims of there surroundings but they don't grow into killers and rapist.

I would love to see evidence of genetic imperatives for criminality

Then you say child molesters are being reformed. BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. Have you ever talked with a child molester? Have you ever had one look you in the eye and tell you he can control his urges? NO FUCKING WAY. Sir I have participated in numerous interviews and interrogations of sex offenders of all types. They are truly fucked up my friend and they will tell you they CANNOT control it. The unfortunate part here is the huge % of sex offenders who were victims of sex crimes themselves, it's staggering!

Well, I didn't actually say that. You are right that the systems US uses for any sort of reforms don't work. Repeat offense in US is enormous

I couldn't find it again, so I'm sorry about that, but I was referring to some preliminary research showing significant reductions in repeat offense for some pedophilia due to new and quite different programs from the mainstream. It was in like Norway or some place, and it was much, much different than the kinds of things we do in the US. The research is preliminary, but instead of throwing away the key, it attempts to use what we know how what causes pedophilia to combat it, and results are showing fruitful

The point I was making was that reform is possible, not that we're achieving it in any conventional means.

[BankItDrew]

A couple of years of good parenting and psychological meetings would do wonders for this kid. He doesn't deserve to be punished for his next 11 years by tossing him into juvenile hall. Juvey would cost more and make things worse.

[Micro2Macro]

well said spoon

[PapalRage]

A couple of years of good parenting and psychological meetings would do wonders for this kid. He doesn't deserve to be punished for his next 11 years by tossing him into juvenile hall. Juvey would cost more and make things worse.

Yea, after thinking about it and blazing a bit while glossing over wufwugy's posts, it would be really sweet if somehow we had a boot camp/ heavy discipline style foster home or something for young violent offenders. It could provide individualized attention while still punishing the kid for killing someone. After the kid shows progress it could transition into a 'normal' foster home of some sort. Kid grows up hopefully realizing how awful he was, realizes the price he had to pay, and is incredibly thankful to be free again at 18 or 21 or whatever and seizes said opportunity. Incredibly unrealistic, but I'm thinking something along those lines might be the best in a vacuum.

Obviously, his parents fucked up big time and shouldn't have been allowed to procreate in the first place. Unfortunately, there is no test to pass before the gov. lets you bang an ugly fat white bitch.

[Sasquach991]

Wise words from Keanu Reeves

YouTube - Parenthood (1989) "Tod's Dad's Breakfast"

[boost]

An argument over firewood may have triggered a heated argument

How does the author of this article have a job?

[Lukie]

wuf, going to quote you from one of the recent 'would hit that?' threads regarding genetics:

The way I would describe it is that we have specific genes, but a rather wide and often unknowable range of development those genes can take. This is true for most things too. Humans are all so incredibly genetically similar to each other, yet we seem to have such variety in who we are. I think the best way to explain that is environmental factors molding genetic expression (also the exact same genes/environment themselves probably has a variety effect anyways)

personally, i think it's mostly a moot point anyway. i really couldn't careless if someone is fucked up in the head due to genetics or because of something bad that happened in their life; if the end result is a horrible crime then that is the most important piece of information.

that's just a general reply. making exceptions for small children for example would be very reasonable.

[wufwugy]

Well, I don't really disagree. My reasoning is for the purpose of finding the solution. I haven't suggested leniency or something based on any kind of deservedness, but actually solving the problem. Crime needs to be addressed, but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to address it incorrectly. The way society addresses crime is pretty pathologically bad, that was more what I'm referring to.

For example, my solution to child molesters is: 1) reform to acceptable levels based on good data, but if this is not possible then 2) hang them in town square. The current approach is fucking awful garbage that does stuff like provoke repeat offense or use retarded "justice" tactics that are really just "two wrongs make a right" irrational punishments