N. Korea test launches missiles

[ensign_lee]

Does this bother anybody else?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/nor...778972562.html

http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=e...e+Search&meta=

[ItDepends]

a nuke landed right next to my house

[Miffed22001]

a nuke landed right next to my house

im selling them
$147k

anyone fancy it?

[LimpinAintEZ]

if it doesn't bother you, it sure as hell should...but lets keep our focus on Iraq....YEAH - great plan

[Secular Monk]

when they develop solid fuelled long range rockets-that's when we should start crappin' our pants.

the liquid variants take several days to fuel while on the pads-which makes them nice easy targets if there were hostilities.

[bluey]

didnt it fail?

[Greedo017]

they wouldn't attack the U.S. straight away, they'd blow up japan first, so we got an early warning system already in place.


and yea, it worries me, it worries everyone, but there is jack-diddly-shit we can do about it unless china decides to stop them.

[ensign_lee]

they wouldn't attack the U.S. straight away, they'd blow up japan first, so we got an early warning system already in place.


and yea, it worries me, it worries everyone, but there is jack-diddly-shit we can do about it unless china decides to stop them.

jack-diddly shit = pre-emptive strike?

We wouldn't even have to occupy the territory later. S. Korea can take care of that.

[boost]

pre-emptive strike... honestly I probably would have been all for this had we not used this tactic on iraq. Sure we actually know that they have what they should have now, however its just not a good idea to be seen as the country that goes around the world pre-emptive striking whoever whenever.

also I never quite understood how the ban on nukes works. So russia and the us and a bunch of other western powers can have nukes. But when other countries want to join the club they arent aloud. I completely understand the idea of keeping nukes out of hte hands of a volitile hostile nation, I just dont get whos discretion it is at. For example, we dont like Iran, and they dont particularly like us, howeverit is completely possible that they wouldnt just go launching nukes at the US and Israel. I mean you have to understand the psychological impact that these restrictions have on a country. They are bound in a hypocritical bondage, so of course they want to defy thier 'master' and get what they arent supposed to have. Espeaically if it means more power on the world stage.

[Greedo017]

uhh, north korea has nukes: we won't pre-emptively attack them. they will blow up japan, seriously.

I don't think the U.S. would care half as much about north korea having nukes if we knew they would keep them to themselves. a big threat is them selling them to the arabs then trying to claim innocence when we or israel gets a nuke jihaded up our ass.

[boost]

umm you do know that its not the actual nuke that is sold, but material and the know how. And north korea was actually sold these things by the arabs, so I dont exactly think thats the concern. Also you do realize pakistan has nukes, a nation that has seen several military coups in the last 10 or 15 years. Sure the guy in power is moderate, but who knows how long he will hold power? and then whats gonna happen with those nukes? But guess what, because of the little bit of help theyve given us on the 'war on terror' and the half kept promises we just turn a blind eye. Good thinking america, thats what got us into most of this in the first place; Giving money and weapons to nations in turmoil for a gain in the present or near future but no thought about whats going to happen with what we give them a decade down the road.

[Greedo017]

yea, by nukes i meant nuclear materials, my mistake.

i don't think you're thinking realistically about pakistan. are we supposed to condemn every country we have any problem with? should we go after china because of their massive human rights abuses? why don't we just pick a fight with the whole world?

because it just doesn't work. this is the nature of diplomacy. if iran and north korea and palestine (and/or israel) didn't exist, maybe the next country on our list to try to clean-up would be pakistan. but they do, so a country like pakistan becomes rather unimportant, and given how unpopular we are throughout the islamic world, they're an important ally at this point, one we can't afford to jeopardize.

[Miffed22001]

so where are these troops going to come from that youll use to attack Korea with then?
Conscription?
Oh waht!? you didnt know you have no troop resevre left to fight another war?
Shame on you! I guess boost's letter is in the mail (no offence dude, just a U.S stereotype!)

[Galapogos]

We in Canada would be happy to lend you some of ours...

[Greedo017]

so where are these troops going to come from that youll use to attack Korea with then?
Conscription?
Oh waht!? you didnt know you have no troop resevre left to fight another war?
Shame on you! I guess boost's letter is in the mail (no offence dude, just a U.S stereotype!)

we won't pre-emptively attack north korea, i already said this. the only thing that can control north korea is china, but china doesn't seem to give a damn.

[Miffed22001]

so where are these troops going to come from that youll use to attack Korea with then?
Conscription?
Oh waht!? you didnt know you have no troop resevre left to fight another war?
Shame on you! I guess boost's letter is in the mail (no offence dude, just a U.S stereotype!)

we won't pre-emptively attack north korea, i already said this. the only thing that can control north korea is china, but china doesn't seem to give a damn.

thats because they are allies and china knows it can distance itself or associate as it pleases.

You dont have enough troops to man ships at the minute never mind make a pre-emptive strike.Bush doesnt quite tell the whole truth

[Greedo017]

You dont have enough troops to man ships at the minute never mind make a pre-emptive strike.Bush doesnt quite tell the whole truth

what does this have to do with anything?

we have enough troops to do whatever the hell we want, we're the fucking united states.

[bode]

they wouldn't attack the U.S. straight away, they'd blow up japan first, so we got an early warning system already in place.

the US would never let it even get this far. beyond Japan being one of our greatest allies, the US has so much financial interest in the Japanese economy, our country would take an unbeleivable hit if something like this happened.

[boost]

no Im not saying to condemn every country we have beef with. Im not saying to preemtively strike anyone. Thats the opposite of what Im saying. Im pointing out how ridiculous our foreign policy is. Pumping money into a military regime that is at the time pro-american is NOT a good idea. First of all the people of this islamic country realize that thier gov't is in a sense a puppet of the US. This might not be fully true, but we are atleast poking our nose where it doesnt belong and that pisses people off. Pakistan is not going to be a long standing US allie. The country is not stable and the people of the country do not like us. So Im not saying go to war with them, Im saying we probably shouldnt be giving them billions of dollars.

And as far as nukes go, I really dont see how society can continue to exist in its current structure without destroying itself. It sucks that they were ever created, but now that they are, unless the world is changed drastically, the outcome is inevitable.

[Secular Monk]

Speaking of Japan....

Alot of people do not realize which country is 2nd when it comes to military expenditures. Surprisingly, it is Japan; they are second only to the US.

It is somewhat ironic. they spend a crapload on military "stuff" but under the Japanese constitution (since WWII), the Japanese military (SDF) can only use their substantial (referring to their high tech-force/force multiplier capababilities rather than actual manpower) military might for self-defense-hence the name Self-Defense Forces (SDF). While the SDF is severely limited by the constitution, continued provocation by N. Korea could certainly lead Japanese lawmakers to redefine (again) what constitutes an act of self-defense (they've become more and more liberal since the 1990s).

Sorry if I sound like a textbook....I've got a test over this crap next week. If I don't pass I don't get my degree.......there's always poker.

[ItDepends]

Speaking of Japan....

Alot of people do not realize which country is 2nd when it comes to military expenditures. Surprisingly, it is Japan; they are second only to the US.

It is somewhat ironic. they spend a crapload on military "stuff" but under the Japanese constitution (since WWII), the Japanese military (SDF) can only use their substantial (referring to their high tech-force/force multiplier capababilities rather than actual manpower) military might for self-defense-hence the name Self-Defense Forces (SDF). While the SDF is severely limited by the constitution, continued provocation by N. Korea could certainly lead Japanese lawmakers to redefine (again) what constitutes an act of self-defense (they've become more and more liberal since the 1990s).

Sorry if I sound like a textbook....I've got a test over this crap next week. If I don't pass I don't get my degree.......there's always poker.

your boobs are nice

[Miffed22001]

the U.S doesnt have an soldiers, its reserve is empty.
Theyd need more soldiers from conscription or some junk to fight a third war.
fwiw, go america and bomb the koreans, the sooner the better. Then get on and invade iran plz.
To be quite frank, it is these people that give other memebers of groups particularly muslims a bad image and when they arent there no one will give a shit.

[ensign_lee]

Whoever said that we need ground troops?

Last I checked, we don't have the Naval forces out in the middle of Iraq.

Just launch a few missiles (ok...a LOT of missiles) and call in some airstrikes from a few of the aircraft carriers that we have in the Pacific to demolish anything resembling a nuclear reactor or missile site. Reduce their military infrastructure to rubble with airstrikes/missiles, and let the South Koreans take care of the rest.

Let's not forget, S. Korea and N. Korea never officially signed a peace treaty. They just kinda decided not to shoot each other anymore and establish that neutral zone in between them. They can supply the extra manpower if needed.

We don't need more troops because
A) We don't need to occupy N. Korea afterwards
B) We don't need to take over N. Korea, just disable their military capability.

Since when did the world become ok with people breaking their promises? N. Korea testing these missiles directly breaks a moratorium on long range missile launches that they signed with Japan in 2002.

[ensign_lee]

hey secular monk:

second in military expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you mean?

Because I find it hard to believe that little itty bitty Japan spends more on military expenditures than, oh...I dunno...Russia?

[givememyleg]

people are stupid

[Greedo017]

miffed, you severely underestimate what the united states is capable of

[Greedo017]

hey secular monk:

second in military expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you mean?

Because I find it hard to believe that little itty bitty Japan spends more on military expenditures than, oh...I dunno...Russia?

japan spends 1% of its gdp on millitary expenditures, which is not particularly high compared to other countries.

As far as total $ amount.
U.S., China, Russia, UK, France, Japan, in that order, with japan spending 45 billion in 2004, the U.S. spending 440 billion in 2006 (estimate).

[Greedo017]

That is a picture of the recently developed joint strike fighter. its creation was largely overseen by lieutenant general jack hudson, a personal friend. http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5873

[SaulPaul]

whats the big deal; Korea have about 6 (yes just 6) missiles that can go about 40 miles before failing, that cant carry warheads

fwiw, go america and bomb the koreans, the sooner the better. Then get on and invade iran plz.

All these countries have done is defy the mighty US, and you guys are scared shitless. These wars ur sugessting are completely unessecary, and will achieve nothing in the long term

[Greedo017]

All these countries have done is defy the mighty US, and you guys are scared shitless. These wars ur sugessting are completely unessecary, and will achieve nothing in the long term

he was being sarcastic.

and, the reason I made a few posts on it is because he's implying the U.S. has gotten in over our heads - which we certainly have not. There is a reason we have not attacked iran or north korea yet - because its not necessary or prudent, yet. attacking iraq probably wasn't necessary either, but i'm not gonna get into that.

[biondino]

hey secular monk:

second in military expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you mean?

Because I find it hard to believe that little itty bitty Japan spends more on military expenditures than, oh...I dunno...Russia?

GDP of Russia: $1.6 trillion
GDP of Japan: $4.9 trillion

gg lee

[a500lbgorilla]

yah, but every trillion after your first isnt really that big of a deal. So it's pretty close.

[pgil]

there are some very good reasons why the US will not attack north korea. first is, they actually have a military. sure you could launch missiles at them, but do you really think that they are sitting there without a whole bunch of antiaircraft sites??
second is that they are situated close to some important US allies.
third, and most important of all, they are close allies of China. and that is one war that the US does not want to risk starting.

[Secular Monk]

yeah, the Japanese are really strict about maintaining a cap on military expenditures: 1% of GDP. Obviously, since Japan continues to be one of the world's foremost economies (even considering the stagnation in the 1990s), 1% is still a considerable amount of cheddar.

I'd have to dig up the specific statistic that suggests the Japanese are second only to the US when it comes to military "focus." However, the stat did come from a professor who is a former DIA specialist on Japanese/Chinese relations. Now that I think about it, he probably used some type of relative/weighted stat to adjust for Japan's unwillingness to spend more than 1% of their GDP (US is between 3 and 4 % I believe). Like I said I'd have to look it up.

[pgil]

Since when did the world become ok with people breaking their promises? N. Korea testing these missiles directly breaks a moratorium on long range missile launches that they signed with Japan in 2002.

since the US does it all the time.

There is a thing called NAFTA, which protects the flow of goods across north american borders from tarrifs. The US went and slapped large tarrifs on canadian softwood lumber,and was maintaining these tarrifs despite countless WTO and NAFTA rulings which stated that they were contrary to NAFTA.
but that is just trade, you may say. its not something as important as a treaty banning the development of weapons.

the US is now developing a ballistic missile defence program, which directly contravenes the ABM treaty that was signed with Russia. this will most likely lead to a renewed arms race.

the US has a long history of not sticking to international agreements.
there are many others, but those are just the ones off of the top of my head.

[boost]

hey secular monk:

second in military expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you mean?

Because I find it hard to believe that little itty bitty Japan spends more on military expenditures than, oh...I dunno...Russia?

you know japan is somewhere aroudn the size of california? I think its bigger, but that gives you a decent understanding of its size. So it might look little, but thats a lot of room. And I dont know if youve been to japan or know much about it, but those guys are packed in like sardines. If you think what you get for 1000$/mo in new york is small, you get the equivilent to a small walk in closet in tokyo. I could go look up thier population, but Im lazy, but its not as small as you would think. Also thier GDP is way up there. They are the leading supplier of high end tech, and a huge supplier of cars world wide.

I guess its a common conception, post-wwII, that japan is this itty bitty tame island nation. However think about wwII, they were some bad ass mother fuckers, they gave us a strong run for our money.



As for S. Korea, yes we are allies but I know that S. Koreans dont exactly love us. So I dont know how willing they are to do our dirty work. Maybe if we stayed out of it and japan and S. Korea got together or some crap. But I dont know, maybe they would be happy to reunite all of korea and bwn N. Korea once and for all.

[Pelion]

There was a survey a little while back that suggested that more south koreans were scared of the US than of North Korea.

Makes you think.

Fwiw it scares me that more countries are taking up nukes. Id be perfectly happy if noone had them at all and that includes the white hats of the west.

[givememyleg]

people are stupid

[Secular Monk]

hey secular monk:

second in military expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you mean?

Because I find it hard to believe that little itty bitty Japan spends more on military expenditures than, oh...I dunno...Russia?

you know japan is somewhere aroudn the size of california? I think its bigger, but that gives you a decent understanding of its size. So it might look little, but thats a lot of room. And I dont know if youve been to japan or know much about it, but those guys are packed in like sardines. If you think what you get for 1000$/mo in new york is small, you get the equivilent to a small walk in closet in tokyo. I could go look up thier population, but Im lazy, but its not as small as you would think. Also thier GDP is way up there. They are the leading supplier of high end tech, and a huge supplier of cars world wide.

I guess its a common conception, post-wwII, that japan is this itty bitty tame island nation. However think about wwII, they were some bad ass mother fuckers, they gave us a strong run for our money.



As for S. Korea, yes we are allies but I know that S. Koreans dont exactly love us. So I dont know how willing they are to do our dirty work. Maybe if we stayed out of it and japan and S. Korea got together or some crap. But I dont know, maybe they would be happy to reunite all of korea and bwn N. Korea once and for all.

Quite right. In fact, since WWII, Japan has made it a high priority to downplay it's military potential. They do this for one reason-it makes good economic sense (If it don't make dollars (yen), it don't make "Cents"!). Rather than focusing on imperialism (pre-WWII), the Japanese use that same fervor to succeed economically (or their own brand of capitalism).

Of course, there is still alot of bad blood between the Chinese and Japanese over the atrocities committed by the Japanese when they occupied China during WWII (Actually, all of East Asia remains somewhat petrified by the potential of the Japanese military). Because of this, any Japanese policy that remotely resembles a move to outright militarization (such as theatre missile defense (TMD)) is quickly jumped on by the Chinese. So, in order to appease China and the rest of East Asia, the Japanese consistently do cartwheels to keep their neighbors feelin' safe-once again, it makes good economic sense.

Yeah, the younger demographics of South Korea hate our guts-they want us outa there. For obvious reasons, Americans focus on the nuclear capabilities of North Korea, but alot of Americans do not realize the craziness of North Korean artillery-around 10,000 pieces...and it's all pointing south. And I'm not only referring to "dinky" towed artillery. Alot of their heavy artillery is embedded within the mountains. If hostilities did occur, Seoul would be wiped off the map pretty quick. Plus, you have to consider the fact that some of the shells are going to have chemical tips...