Newbie circle X3

[villagenut]

Dont really know if this is a rant, confession, or question....LOL
I have been playing poker on and off for about 5 years. The reason for the "on and off" is what i'm trying to figure out. I LOVE the game. Now in my mid 40's it's about the only thing besides golf that i still get some form of competiton to satisfy my competitive spirit.

I really don't want to this to be a long post so i try to summarize. I think i have traveled the newbie circle of death 4 or 5 times. I make a deposit, and proceed to double or sometimes tripled it. EVERYTIME this has happend it has been within the first month of the deposit. For the second month i rock along about even and then in the third month it seems that every hand takes a bad beat. I've tracked it and on the hands that i was eliminiated, i was ahead roughly 62% when the money went in. So i suffer along and after another month or so i loose the entire bank roll. I cool off and wait 3-6 months before redeposting and then i follow the same circle.

I have read HOH and a couple of others, and have read almost every article on this great site. It's just nuts that i can be a winning player for a while and then lose when i seem to be playing the same way. I generally play low stakes 18 or 90 person sng's. I sometimes throw in a larger MTT but always within bankroll guidelines.

So i guess my question is, what am i missing? What have i yet to do to put me over the hump so i don't have to take these cooling periods. I just want to be a steady winning player that can maintain a bankroll so support my love for the game......
THANKS guys for your comments!!

[Carroters]

Your sample size is likely pretty small. How many hands are you playing during these bad periods? Realise you probably suck quite badly at poker - that's the first step.

Then post a bunch of hands on FTR for people to give you feedback on and just try to absorb and practice as much as you can until more things start to click. If you don't have PT3 or HEM then get it and track how many hands your playing and see your results over a long period of hands at least 30-50k for cash games. Not sure about tournaments or sngs.

[Santo2True]

yeah, admitting you suck is the first and best step. believe me, i was there. i couldn't understand how i could double my bankroll in such a short period of time and then lose it just as fast when I was "playing the same" good game I always have.
Then I started reading and realized how AWFULL i actually was at playing poker and how much I actually did not know.
Now my bankroll grows very slowly, however, i never lose that much and mostly am improving
I'm still horrible, but I feel like I'm getting better and getting a better grasp on things.
Keep reading all the posts you can here and post hands that you feel you played badly and get some advise on how to play them better. It will work out for you in the long run if you are willing to put some time into it AND if you are willing to admit you have no idea how to play poker, lol

[dranger7070]

Bankroll management yo.

[narcoticrex]

Hey villagenut, its nice to see im not the only one! Here is my confessional....

I have the same issues...i have been playing about 5 years on and off. i just deposited $50 last week at full tilt, then the worst possible thing happened to me....i placed 5th in a $7,500 guaranteed, then won a $10 145 player MTT tourney for like 160ish bucks. Just taking shots for fun. I had my bankroll from 50 to 550 in 2 days. My girlfriend was like "How come you dont poker more often?"

I have played online and casinos on and off for years. I have never tracked anything seriously. I am a break even player, probably a little up lifetime, as Ive used my roll in the past to buy myself a new bicycle and gifts for the girl......

I came here with my new large bankroll to try and protect it, and learn some new concepts.

One week later, and I am down to $100, from playing mostly 2 and 3 dollar sngs. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THING, is I have been tracking this past downswing using the free 60 day trial of pokertracker. I have taken several bad beats, as you can see from a couple of my posts around here, but have played terrible in just about as many. Bluffing into huge pots with nothing. Making dumb calls, not able to lay down my (supposed) monsters. In the past I would always cry about how bad of luck I have, and get so frustrated I would be throwing shit. Now, I can open pokertracker, and see that I have only won with AKo like 40% of the time, and down tons of BBs with it....and I can examine why. Open each and every hand. Bad beats? yes. Bluffs? YES. How many? TOO MANY. Also, I can see exactly which games I played. See when I was on tilt and trying to win quick cash, the cardinal mistake of gambling. And I always thought of myself as being able to fold hands I was beat on....poker tracker told me otherwise.

If I hadnt been bluffing so much, my roll would be about double. Ive been bounced out of roughly 20 $2 SNGs in the past week by bluffing. If I had been playing $10 SNGs, my roll would be gone.

It feels like in this latest run of bad luck, I hit rockbottom a few days ago and just had the realization. Some crazy shit happened, like someone stayed in to make a 1 outer straight flush on my nut flush or something, and I got so pissed, I went and punched my door. My door is solid oak, so after a second the pain came, and I just looked at myself and thought, my god dude, youre fucking stupid....what are you doing? I just got zen, and decided to not let wins or losses affect my short term outlook anymore.

I am practicing on not getting mad at poker. I am a VERY competitive person...I explained it to my girlfriend as when I am losing, I feel discouraged, and like a loser, and it affects how I play. But when I am winning, I am not on top of the world, feeling like I cant do anything wrong....it just feels NORMAL. How its SUPPOSED to be. Im SUPPOSED to be WINNING, so when I would be way ahead and some 4% miracle would come for the villian, it would ruin my day, which would make me play bad, which would ruin my day more, which would make me play worse. When someone wins my chips in poker, I take it way too personally, like they think I am stupid or something.

In short, I REALLY suck at poker. I cannot control my emotions, and this leads to bad decisions, which lead to lost money. I play too many hands, which leads to lost money. I play out of position too often.

Here is my new strategy for microstakes:
Fold everything but super premiums and pairs. Raise these from any position. Open up a little wider on the button, maybe even raise with some trash like KJs, but mainly just fold.
Never bluff. Maybe like 2% of the time. This includes drastically dropping cbet percentage, because these guys are calling. This also includes hands like trying to push people off with 55 on a KJ2 flop, because a lot of times, j3 is calling you just because.

When you feel the "bad times" coming on, go play $1 SNGs and .02/.05 limit. Its a good way to blow off steam without losing your stack. Also, if you take like 2-3 bad beats in a short amount of time, just quit. I know you want to win your money back, but it isnt happeneing, and more than likely, you will just take more bad beats, because it seems like poker players see other guys taking beats and start calling them more, like pirahna going after blood. For your bankroll's sake, just go do something else, and dont be a pissy ninny doing your other thing either. Dont go play xbox and swear at everyone who kills you online, or beat your dog for peeing in the house, or whatever. Just learn, and cope. Try to cope.

Dont mean to derail or take over your thread, but I was just about to make a similar one. Just try to play your best mate, and you will come out ahead in the long run. Marathon, not sprint. I know its poker cliche, but these things seriously have to be pounded into the head. As much as I hear them and repeat them, its hard to DO them. Even after reading here and knowing I shouldnt make call X, i still do and lose Y amount of chips to player Z....so at that point it is self control and realizing what your own mental state and abilities are. good luck....

[Redgyboy]

Nice post narcoticrex.

[Kijjo]

... I had my bankroll from 50 to 550 in 2 days...

One week later, and I am down to $100, from playing mostly 2 and 3 dollar sngs. ....

I appreciate you honesty narco, but this? Either you're lying to yourself that you stuck to $2 and $3 games, or else you went on a 150-200 game downswing in a week? You'd have to play an unbelievable amount of games in there since you'll cash in some of them just by sheer luck. When you say "mostly", do you really mean something like "after I blew a couple hundred on some $25 Sngs?"
Again I appreciate your honesty in the rest of the post, but it still seems you're lying to yourself (or at least to us) a bit.

Villagenut, don't give up. You can do it. You can improve your game. If I can win long term, anyone can. Keep at it.

[narcoticrex]

Nope, mostly 2 and 3s. I just counted, 8 $10 SNGs without a cash after my 145 player win. Also i play the step tourneys on full tilt, and got myself a 24+2 ticket that i used to join a tourney. I lost about $40 playing $25 NL, one guy took that from me on 2 straight hands, one bad beat, one bad play. Lost another $50 at 10NL in small chunck, and even some at super micro limit.

Trust me, I got the stats to prove it, for once in my life. I certainly dont have any problem letting anyone look, Im here to learn.

But it happens to me just like the OP...jump in with a deposit, go on a heater, and really jump the bankroll, then just unbelievably bad luck, which then makes you tilt and lose more. It happens every single time I deposit, and Ive had more than one friend who has had the same syndrome....

i dont have a job atm, and Im not forced to get one as of yet, so i have lots of free time to play $2 SNGs haha

Poker tracker says i have played in 104 SNGs/tourneys. Buyin: 359.70 winnings 99.73 net won: -259.70 why do you think i am punching oak doors after getting busted out of ANOTHER $2 tourney. I couldnt win. But like I said it wasnt ALL bad luck, there is bad play.....but there IS bad luck. I was/sorta am running as cold just as I was running hot when I built the roll.

[villagenut]

Two suggestions so far is bank roll managment and poker tracker.

To the best of my ability i have followed BR mgmt. It seems ironic that each time i deposited, it was a different amount and different stakes but all with the same result. first deposit was 50, next deposit was 40, next deposit was 100, etc. If i'm bad how can i double no matter what stakes and then loose. It seems to me that i would not be able to win at all at say a 5 or 10 dollar level meaning i would deposit enough and just loose from the start. So i guess what i'm saying is i am able to follow this suggestion but still not play winning poker for a long period.

PokerTracker. I can see where this is helpful in cash games. Does it really help in tourneys? I am almost broke again in my account. I am considering purchasing PT3 and sticking strickly with cash games and see how i fair. But a tourney every now and then will be hard to resist.

Are there any other suggestions. I have not read a lot of books on cash games. I have read sklanksy's Small Stakes Holdem. In your opinion is it easier to be a long term winner in tourneys or cash..
THANKS for keeping the thread going narco..

[Kijjo]

So you've played roughly 100 tourneys in a week and lost nearly every single one.
#1 Stop playing 100 tourneys/week. Instead, spend more time studying, watching videos, etc.
#2 I don't know how large the games you play are, but bump down to smaller fields/single tables - you'll cash more often, so though the payout is small, you're not losing 100 in a row.
#3 Use Sharkscope.com to help select your games - it's free - it works on tourneys up to 20 players. It's not going to make you win, but it will help you avoid tourneys that have above average and profitable players already sitting down when you're signing up.

[narcoticrex]

well yeah, in my defense the are 180 man $2 and 90 man $3 KO tourneys, so its not like im playing a 9 player game.

I have cashed in 11%.

and i still have double what i deposited