How many flops seen at a shorthanded game?

[Wilco]

I play home games NL low stakes tourney style quite a bit. Anywhere from 4-6 players. The starting chip count is a little low, but workable. And the blinds go up very slow (everytime one man goes out the blind doubles). Most are pretty good poker players. I make money, but not as much as i want, of course. Id say i win 50% of the time.

Heres the thing: Im seeing about 75-80% of the flops. Maybe higher. But so is everyone else.

Is this optimal? How many flops do you or would you be seeing at a table like this?

[ensign_lee]

If you're going to play a loose aggressive game, that's fine. Shorhanded is about the only time that I try that style. Usually, i log about 50-70% of the flops.

Jus tmake sure you drop 'em when you're sure you're losing. It shouldn't be a problem otherwise.

[joslin]

errr am I a complete moron

since after reading all the tips on this site I only see about 15-25% of flops, thats when I get cards like AA, KK, AK ......... QQ, QJflush and such, am I missing a lot of possible payout hands ? (and of course limp in on BB, and maybe like 77 on SB)

But it feels like a 'secure' way for me as a newbie to at least try to play solid.

please tell me if I am doing something wrong, I really would like to improve my game.

EDIT: but I play limit micro of course... many ppl at the table 7-10

[journey075]

errr am I a complete moron

since after reading all the tips on this site I only see about 15-25% of flops, thats when I get cards like AA, KK, AK ......... QQ, QJflush and such, am I missing a lot of possible payout hands ? (and of course limp in on BB, and maybe like 77 on SB)

But it feels like a 'secure' way for me as a newbie to at least try to play solid.

please tell me if I am doing something wrong, I really would like to improve my game.

EDIT: but I play limit micro of course... many ppl at the table 7-10

youre lucky if you get aa-qq 25% of the time . look at the hand rankings on the main part of this site (www.flopturnriver.com). the author grouped generally playable hands in seven groups. you should raise/call with 0-2, and generally just try and limp with the rest. he goes into more detail, but thats a great starting point on what hands you can play.

just remember to not play passively: ie dont just call with top hands and chase/fold if you dont hit the flop. show strength.

[Wilco]

At micro play everything without a preflop raise. With good cards raise or call raises.

[a500lbgorilla]

errr am I a complete moron

since after reading all the tips on this site I only see about 15-25% of flops, thats when I get cards like AA, KK, AK ......... QQ, QJflush and such, am I missing a lot of possible payout hands ? (and of course limp in on BB, and maybe like 77 on SB)

But it feels like a 'secure' way for me as a newbie to at least try to play solid.

please tell me if I am doing something wrong, I really would like to improve my game.

EDIT: but I play limit micro of course... many ppl at the table 7-10

This thread is about shorthanded play and you're talking about full table.

You're fine.

-'rilla

[a500lbgorilla]

I play home games NL low stakes tourney style quite a bit. Anywhere from 4-6 players. The starting chip count is a little low, but workable. And the blinds go up very slow (everytime one man goes out the blind doubles). Most are pretty good poker players. I make money, but not as much as i want, of course. Id say i win 50% of the time.

Heres the thing: Im seeing about 75-80% of the flops. Maybe higher. But so is everyone else.

Is this optimal? How many flops do you or would you be seeing at a table like this?

Unless you can read your opponents like a book, you are seeing far too many flops. That's basically sitting out one hand per orbit. You need to bump that down to 35-50.

-'rilla

[SmackinYaUp]

And make sure to raise with face cards!

See, we need a shorthanded forum.

[storm75m]

i agree on the shorthanded forum, playing a 6 max game is so totally different from playing in a full ring... the action is fast and furious and your post flop play has to be much better, your starting hand requirements loosen, you can bluff more, etc. etc. I was strictly playing 6 max for a while, consistently winning... then switched to full tables and lost 1/3 of my BR. It is definitely a whole different animal. There is even this "maniac" style that is pretty profitable that is starting to catch on a lot, and people are running over the 6 max tables like madmen. I would definetly be interested in learning more...

[thestrokes]

I play a shorthanded homegame all the time. I typically dont bother limping much and raise most playable hands. I typically like to see 66% with around 6 people and probobly about 75% with 4. Raise any playable hand. Big cards, high pocket pairs, low pocket pairs, J/To, anything... but thats just how i like to play.

around 66% is probobly best

[thestrokes]

And make sure to raise with face cards!

See, we need a shorthanded forum.

I would LOVE a shorthanded forum, lets get some support for this idea so they will start one up...

[jmontis]

If im going to play cash games i prefer 8-9 handed, or 2-3 handed. It just seems easier that way.

[a500lbgorilla]

I play a shorthanded homegame all the time. I typically dont bother limping much and raise most playable hands. I typically like to see 66% with around 6 people and probobly about 75% with 4. Raise any playable hand. Big cards, high pocket pairs, low pocket pairs, J/To, anything... but thats just how i like to play.

around 66% is probobly best

Don't raise with low pocket pairs if your opponents easily fall in love with any pair (and they do.)

2/3rds of all flops at a 6 person table is a bit much. I don't think high card hands a better even represent 2/3rds of all hands dealt.

35-50 is more like it.

-'rilla

[thestrokes]

I play a shorthanded homegame all the time. I typically dont bother limping much and raise most playable hands. I typically like to see 66% with around 6 people and probobly about 75% with 4. Raise any playable hand. Big cards, high pocket pairs, low pocket pairs, J/To, anything... but thats just how i like to play.

around 66% is probobly best

Don't raise with low pocket pairs if your opponents easily fall in love with any pair (and they do.)

2/3rds of all flops at a 6 person table is a bit much. I don't think high card hands a better even represent 2/3rds of all hands dealt.

35-50 is more like it.

-'rilla

I like to try to play as maniac as possible at a short table, and i raise so often preflop because i find it easy to bluff my opponents out post flop when i do this, i can almost always isolate myself, and 2/3 of the time they check to me i bet and i take it down.

The table is pretty stupid, but once they catch on ill be in for a shock. I am capable of tightening up, but i dotn see any reason to when the table is so weak-tight. I have been making good profits, but next time we play i will try 35-50 and see how it works out.

[twosevoff]

i agree on the shorthanded forum, playing a 6 max game is so totally different from playing in a full ring... the action is fast and furious and your post flop play has to be much better, your starting hand requirements loosen, you can bluff more, etc. etc. I was strictly playing 6 max for a while, consistently winning... then switched to full tables and lost 1/3 of my BR. It is definitely a whole different animal. There is even this "maniac" style that is pretty profitable that is starting to catch on a lot, and people are running over the 6 max tables like madmen. I would definetly be interested in learning more...

Definitely. I was crushing 6-max games with around a 50% VPIP, but when I started playing ring games again I was getting killed trying to run over the table like I did at 6-max. Since then, I've reverted to my old tight aggressive ring game strategy, and now I'm consistently winning again when I play full tables. Shorthanded games are all about aggression and outplaying postflop, whereas ring games are more about camping for big hands

[Wilco]

Unless you can read your opponents like a book, you are seeing far too many flops. That's basically sitting out one hand per orbit. You need to bump that down to 35-50.

-'rilla

Im pretty good at reading the players since i play with them often. I think you are right IF the big blind is 1% of your chip stack. But the game i play the big blind is like 4% of your chip stack. I feel you have to make moves when chip stack is that low, ie. loose-agressive. Otherwise someone is going to get a nice chip lead and bully you around. I find myself playing any face card unless its J-low card. I play any connectors, anything suited, and any pair.

Comments?

OT- I also think there should be a shorthanded forum. Its such a great game. I find 10 handed games to be somewhat boring if the cards arent falling for you. And when you get bored you tend to make bad calls/plays trying to make something happen.

[Wilco]

How about a new short-handed forum AND a heads up forum??

Please?

[thestrokes]

How about a new short-handed forum AND a heads up forum??

Please?

Agreed, i think both area neccesity. Evryong voice your opinion.

PS Wilco rules

[a500lbgorilla]

If only there was a thread somewhere for you all to voice said opinion.

-'rilla

[Demiparadigm]

I am going to throw in my rule of thumb:

You should play less than 200% divided by the number of players.


for example in a 4 player game, play< 200/4 = 50% of hands dealt. I think 40% is a good number.

[joslin]

Thank GOD I read this thread, I have played limit longhand but am trying to go into NL since I am winning at the tables and it is getting a bit boring, and also my bankroll has gone up some ... I'd like to evolve...

At the place I am playing (Unibet) the majority of the small blind NL games are max 6players (is that 6max?) and I got so confused trying to play as tight as possible, (and I mean tight) ... people played craporama, loose and agressive as never seen before - and won - had big stacks. So, again, Thank GOD for this thread, it explains alot...


Maybe I should try the LongHand games instead

[DogOnMySide]

I agree about the shorthanded table forum (and have voted in it)

I'm currently trying to avoid shorthanded, because i want to get better at playing tight. Even playing as tight as i can (at the moment) i still can't get below about 30-33% VP$IP.

When you play with 5 others, you get dealt A8 (for example) and raise early, getting 2 callers... the chances of them having something sick like a high pair are much much lower... it's a pretty good hand.

Whereas raising early on a table of 10 with A8 is just asking to get spanked, really.

i find playing 10 handed is about patience and discipline, whereas playing 5/6 handed is about aggression and dominance.