Post of Intent: $$$ up for grabs

[Val Kilmer]

Howdy,

After rollercoaster ride with STTs and tilt, I'm stumping up the dough for a serious stab at cash - depositing a BR and buying HEM - and if it doesn't work I will walk away from poker forever knowing that I suck so bad I can't even beat donk stakes, cash or tourneys.

My aims are two fold:
1) Become a consistent winner
2) Eventually earn more than £2000 pm.

As my cash poker knowledge is virtually non existent, I'm looking for the following tuition:

Help with HEM
I lack patience with online manuals and when I looked at HEM a while back it was so convoluted that I gave up. So tuition in getting it set up and a basic understanding of how to use it is required. Then I can verify whether I really do run bad all the time and can spot/plug leaks.


Playing the game
I'm looking for a poker coach who feels they can take me from zero to hero. I'll take any free offers but anyone wanting to be paid (which I will gladly do) will have to provide a consistent and impressive track record in both poker and teaching it.

Maths isn't my strong point so an ability to make this side of things easy and to condense it before my eyes glaze over is a must. If you find running EV equasions a doddle but can't put it in laymans terms then you can't help me.

I am open to changing my style but would also need a coach to be able to work with me even if I decide on a different style to what they implement themselves. In STTs I am TAG and when I've dabbled in cash I've turned LAG - mainly because I've struggled to take the low sums seriously.

Finally, it will be just as important to form a working relationship with my coach as it will be to glean knowledge

And that's it - I invite anyone interested to contact me and discuss a plan of action. I will then create an operation and update regularly so everyone can see my progress.


Thx

[StarGrinder]

This guy offers coaching:

[nonofyobiz]

Seems like your getting ahead of yourself here.
Deposit $100 into your account, start playing 0.01 - 0.02. If your good you'll be out of there in 20k hands or less. When you get to 30 buy ins for 5NL ($150), jump to that level, and the same for 10NL.

Be positionally aware, and play TAG poker and you should fly through these levels if you are experienced player.

Read articles, post hands, participate in the forums, analyze your play.

IMO it's not worth it to pay for a coach or training site unless u are at 25NL at least. But prove to yourself that you can beat those micro stakes, don't worry about the sum of the money your winning, worry about your winrate.

you def have to change your mindset from tournaments to cash but start at the bottom and work your way up.

[bhaley66]

Don't worry about the sum of money you are earning, or your winrate... Worry about building a strong foundation to move up to higher stakes with.

Just read, Re-read, RE-RE-read, study, discuss, apply the shit out of Beginners Digest. Then post hand histories that you are unsure of the spot your in...

[Val Kilmer]

Thx for the replies thus far. However, I am not prepared to start at such micro, micro limits. I admit it may be a character flaw but it's the truth so 2 and 5NL are a no go. I am going to enter at 10NL (even that I will struggle to take seriously but I don't have the BR for 25NL which is when the amounts involved start to mean something and hold my interest.

I agree about reading and applying but at the same time, many of my questions and issues can be addressed by a coach quickly. Of course, it will still take time to see if I am beating the game or not but I'd prefer sessions to get me on my way and to analyse my play. That would be far more beneficial than scratching around in the dark for a thousand hands, waiting days for replies to posts and then sifting through the differing opinions (which isn't a good thing when you're new).

Also, it can get embarrassing asking some of the questions I have and a one on one coach removes that issue.

And finally, reading is one thing but applying is another. Like learning an instrument, you may think you're doing it right but are actually making mistakes and getting into bad habits and that is when a tutor would be a great help, even if it's just with the basics. I've read lots from top pros and consider myself a thinking player, but I'm not crushing STTs so something is amiss.

[bhaley66]

Bankroll Management
Moving Up
Don't Be A Poker Pansy (foundation building/learning encouragement imo)

[StarGrinder]

Also read:

• The Newbie Circle of Death - Poker Forums
• I just realized I'm not that good - Poker Forums
• http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...-a-153854.html

Good luck!

[speedcake]

Thx for the replies thus far. However, I am not prepared to start at such micro, micro limits.

i stopped reading here.

GL OP!

[Penneywize]

Thx for the replies thus far. However, I am not prepared to start at such micro, micro limits. I admit it may be a character flaw but it's the truth so 2 and 5NL are a no go. I am going to enter at 10NL (even that I will struggle to take seriously but I don't have the BR for 25NL which is when the amounts involved start to mean something and hold my interest.

If I can play tourneys for 7 years and win huge prizes (one over $10k in a 24$ 1700+ entry 1st place finish) AND THEN realize I suck and that I have to start at 2NL, then you really have no excuse.

[dranger7070]

I'll coach you to beat 10nl FR for $25/hr.

[supa]

Thx for the replies thus far. However, I am not prepared to start at such micro, micro limits.

Translated-

I am not prepared to take the advice of people who have far more knowledge than me. Until I am ready to do so I am destined for failure.

[Val Kilmer]

i stopped reading here.

If you're a coach then you've talked yourself out of business and if you're not, then (and I mean this as nicely as possible) your opinion doesn't matter.

Translated-

I am not prepared to take the advice of people who have far more knowledge than me. Until I am ready to do so I am destined for failure.

Wow, what startling arrogance. if you read my OP, you'd know exactly why I am starting at 10NL. And you'd also find there's nothing wrong with doing so. It's 10NL not 200NL.

And are you really saying that starting at 10NL is setting up for failure? Are you really saying that????

If I can play tourneys for 7 years and win huge prizes (one over $10k in a 24$ 1700+ entry 1st place finish) AND THEN realize I suck and that I have to start at 2NL, then you really have no excuse.

Hold on a minute Penney. Everybody is different. And you cannot go round insisting everyone acts and feels the same. There is no "have" at all. There is no "one way". If you felt required to start at 2NL then that is you but you can't go round expecting others to do the same.

Just as when it comes to BR, you can't tell everyone to have 100BI if others are comfortable with 50 or even 30. Just like you can't expect others to be TAG if you're LAG.

Now as I said, maybe it's a character flaw but I cannot take 2NL seriously nor do I feel I need to. 10NL is not 400NL and from what I've read, there is nothing wrong with starting at 10NL.

So yeah, actually I do have an excuse. And it's just as valid as yours. The difference is I acknowledge that everyone needs to find their own preferences and comfort zones whilst you are insisting there is only one way.

At the end of the day, if it's a waste of money and I am out of my depth, who suffers? You? No, only I will suffer. So again, my excuse and reasoning is just as valid as yours.


EDIT: I was still asking for coaches when I read Dranger's offer.

[dranger7070]

I will slap the shit out of you if you don't read 3 posts up.

[supa]

I will slap the shit out of you if you don't read 3 posts up.

...with a large trout.

[Val Kilmer]

Sorry Dranger,

just read and edited. PM on it's way.

[dranger7070]

...with a large trout.

This.

[Sasquach991]

Grabs popcorn


Dranger: Did you transfer the $25 into my account?

Val: Yes

Dranger: Val, the first thing you need to do to beat 10NL is to start playing at 2NL.

Val: WAT!!!

[Imthenewfish]

can you tell me what tables you're playing on and your screename

[dranger7070]

Lol sasquatch.

Nah, I'm being legit here actually. I'm pretty confident I can coach someone to be a consistent 5-10bb/100+ winner at 2nl-10nl. I don't want to say whether or not I can do that at 25nl since my sample there isn't nearly as large, but I'd be pretty confident I could turn a loser/breakeven player into a winner there as well.

Inb4 spoon says something trollish.

[bhaley66]

lmfao at this thread...

oh and here are a couple I forgot to post earlier on...

from Microstakes Misconceptions by Robb:

Robb's Microstakes Learning Curve

This is my personal experience about what the key points of learning were at each level.

2nl & 5nl: Preflop
Play tight pre, then bet good and fold bad. Proper bet-sizing is key.

10nl: Flop
To crush 10nl, learn to cbet, value bet, and what to do when you flop various draws.

25nl: Turn
For most hands at 10nl and lower, it's over by the turn. Either it's all-in, or no more is going in. At 25nl, you find lots of interesting turn spots. Winning requires a plan for the whole hand BEFORE you commit any chips.

Beating each level, step by step, will help you develop a well-rounded game. Poker will promote you when you've earned it, when you're ready. And maybe a bit faster than you're ready for.

9. I should move up where the money "means something to me." I just can't take 2nl seriously.

I agree - the stakes you play have to be meaningful. Losing a stack has to cause real psychological pain to motivate you to play better. So here's a test. Let's you say feel like you can't take 5nl seriously 'cuz the money is insignificant to you. All right. Get 10 $5 bills. Set them on fire one by one. Seriously. Try it.

You can't do it, can you? You can't just take $50 worth of cash that could buy you food, DVD's, or movie tickets and just burn it, amiright? So I don't believe the 5nl stakes aren't meaningful to you. I think you just want an excuse to gamble for bigger stakes than you're rolled for. And hell, go ahead. Enjoy it. But it's setting money fire. And not just $5 at a time.

There is WAAAAYYY too much information here on FTR for free to be spending your money on coaching right now... Wait till you get to a point where you are really struggling moving up any more.

But hey, if you want to be a dumbass, and blow your money on something that you can get for free with like everybody else does, be my guest... At least someone will get something out of it, ie your coach...lol

[dranger7070]

Tbh, I think Robb's list might be slightly out of date. That was written 2 years ago, and games have definitely changed since then. They aren't that much harder, but it takes a slightly different skill set to beat them. Nothing major, just bump them all up one.

Also, I agree there a lot of free info on FTR, but some people don't have the time/don't want to spend the time sifting through all the garbage to find the nuggets of pwn. Basically, he's paying someone to filter out all the bullshit and teaching him to apply the things that are mentioned on the site instead of reading, testing, tweaking, testing, tweaking, etc.

[Val Kilmer]

But hey, if you want to be a dumbass, and blow your money on something that you can get for free with like everybody else does, be my guest... At least someone will get something out of it, ie your coach...lol

What a classy response. It's not enough for you to stay out of a thread that doesn't concern you, It's not enough for you to respect my opinion and choice when it affects me only. And it's not enough for you to reply in a polite manner, the same polite manner that saw me defend myself to people I don't need to justify myself to.

No, you just have to insult and deride. Classy guy.

Basically, he's paying someone to filter out all the bullshit and teaching him to apply the things that are mentioned on the site instead of reading, testing, tweaking, testing, tweaking, etc.

Exactly. Why some find that hard to understand - and accept - is beyond me.

[daven]

Thx for the replies thus far. However, I am not prepared to start at such micro, micro limits. I admit it may be a character flaw but it's the truth so 2 and 5NL are a no go. I am going to enter at 10NL (even that I will struggle to take seriously

that same character flaw will prevent you making it in poker
i'm looking forward to this statement being quoted when you are raking in the millions
good luck

[Val Kilmer]

You're entitled to your opinion but I fail to see what is so terrible about starting at 10NL. It's not like I'm jumping in at 200NL or even 50NL.

Anyway, I am going to give dranger a shot so if I crash and burn, feel free to rub my nose in it. And if I turn a profit at 10NL over 100k hands, be first in line to congratulate me. That's fair, isn't it?

[supa]

daven
straight flush
posts: 4,056

Not someone I'd give much credit to either.

[Val Kilmer]

daven
straight flush
posts: 4,056

Not someone I'd give much credit to either.

Apply the facepalm to yourself. Not once did I say I don't give him credit - all I did was make a statement that I was happy for him to respond to and explain his opinion. In fact, I've made that point repeatedly in this thread (why is starting at 10NL so bad, it's not 50NL or 400NL). Yet in return people with a handful of posts have made glib and insulting comments to without actually having the decency to reply to.

It's one thing to assume I am disregarding sound advice but to do so when no such advice has yet been given, is even worse.

I have no doubt I can get the same info for free. I even alluded to that. But for MY reasons, reasons that ONLY affect me (and which I was good enough to share to people I don't need to justify myself to) I want someone to talk to one on one and discuss with. And I am willing to pay for that. Why anyone is getting their panties in a twist and even feeling the need to facepalm or insult is staggering.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, this thread is over.

[rong]

WTF guys?????

You don't have to start at 2nl. That's fucking stupid! If you have no money & no idea how to play poker, then you need to start at 2nl. If you have both of the above then I don't see any harm in starting at 10nl. As op said, it's 10nl ffs! There's nothing wrong with starting at 2nl, but that doesn't make it the only option.

As long as dude takes it seriously, there's no reason not to start there.

[rong]

people with a handful of posts have made glib and insulting comments

Welcome to the BC

[Sasquach991]

Val,
If you are thin skinned then you will be offended many times in these forums. If you expect people to be polite here then you won't like it much. After joining, I was consistantly called a tard and an idiot and a retarded idiot. I still get this treatment when I deserve it but it's only going to help in the long run. Really want to get beat up? Post a video of your play.

I too didn't want to start at the micros where the money didn't mean anything but I did anyway because that's how you learn. I could have deposited $1000 on Pokerstars and started playing 25NL without worrying about the money but I didn't because that's not how you learn. I've still got a hell of a lot to learn. I've moved up and down in stakes more times than I care to remember but each time I learn alot more. If you can't beat the 2NL and 5NL fish then you can't beat the higher stakes players either.

Good Luck with Dranger.. He will make you a better player IF you listen to him. I had a hard time listening in the beginning because I didn't think these people really knew that much about poker because they were so young. And just because somebody doesn't have 2000 posts doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. And I'm definitely NOT talking about me.

BTW, I started at 5NL

[kiwiMark]

bitter kiddies that can't beat 2NL and 5NL itt. I'm looking at you, mr daven!

[dranger7070]

20 year old poker coaches itt. :fist pump:

[StarGrinder]

This thread wins on so many different levels. If you're at 10NL for over 100k hands, fire dranger. It's obvious you have much to learn in terms of the right mindset for this game but there's nothing wrong with starting at 10NL. There's nothing wrong with starting at 1KNL either if you have the roll for it. It all depends on you and the money you want to commit to learning. Most people chose the route of $50 and never looked back. Others are different, no big deal.

[daven]

You're entitled to your opinion but I fail to see what is so terrible about starting at 10NL. It's not like I'm jumping in at 200NL or even 50NL.

Anyway, I am going to give dranger a shot so if I crash and burn, feel free to rub my nose in it. And if I turn a profit at 10NL over 100k hands, be first in line to congratulate me. That's fair, isn't it?

your point isn't as stupid as most here seem to think it is, i agree. With a few hours coaching (and i think dranger has a shot at being able to coach players to beat stakes up to and including 10nl - he will be the first to acknowledge that there are better coaches around, but for that price? i dunno, just don't be paying for more than 20hrs ), you should be able to beat 10nl, or at the very least be breakeven at that stake. there is nothing stopping you from making it in poker starting at 10nl. For most people, and for a huge variety of reasons, it is easier starting at the bottom and moving up. One of these reasons is not being prepared to spend $$ to replace 'on-the-job-learning'. Once you are beating one stake, there is no reason why you can't beat the next stakes, over and over and over and over again YouTube - ‪Morcheeba - Over And Over - Big Calm (1998)‬‎
It is also unlikely that you will need to remain at 10nl for 100k hands, like, if you win at a decent winrate you'll be rolled for the next stakes

Something i forgot to mention earlier, there used to be some sites where the smallest stakes are 10nl, meaning that you would have to start there anyway.

my point relates primarily to discipline and mindset. Playing poker inevitably involves experiencing badbeats and runbad periods, a major obstacle to making poker $$ is the ability to deal with these not-so-fun times = learnign to manage/avoid tilt. This is harder than it sounds, and is cheaper at lower stakes. It also involves immense discipline and the ability to think of the chips at the table as big blinds rather than in $$ terms. This applies to all stakes, being able to forget that you're playing for money you may not even bend over in the street to pick up makes life easier if you're ever playing for money where one badbeat can cost you a month's rent and more. These same skills CAN be learned at 10nl, you are right - like I said, it's the associated mindset that may be the problem, and may not.

as for being first in line to congratulate you when you beat 10nl, well, i'll give it a go - but i'm guessing dranger will beat me to it! I'll be in the line tho. I wrote good luck, i meant it. My comment 'that same character flaw will prevent you making it in poker' should probably be revised to something like 'that stated character flaw may make it more difficult to make it in poker than if you instead focused on your mindset with respect to poker'

also, number of posts here is not directly related to quality of advice given. Read the message, think about it. You learn from thinking about 'incorrect' posts as much, if not more, than you can learn from reg posts. And regs (i'm looking at myself here) post some advice that is incorrect, and it is usually pointed out by others pretty quickly

[daven]

also, consider looking at grinderschool.com, and the more you read here from the beginner digest etc before your coaching sessions, the more you will gain from these same coaching sessions. Like, taking a ridiculous example to illustrate the point - if you're paying dranger to teach you that a flush is five cards of the same suit and that it beats one pair, it isn't likely to be an optimal use of your coaching time. Same applies to heaps of things, like, if you read over pot odds and give it a go but don't quite get it, then it will be a lot faster for him to get you over the small bit you're stuck on than having to start from zero. Same applies to a bunch of things.
Also, for setting up the HUD from HEM and any changes to reports i recommend dropping to 2nl. Not as your game, just while checking the changes are working (are stats displaying over the correct players, etc). I drop to 2nl from wherever i may be playing at that time when i want to seriously tweak HUD/etc things - only because i don't want to risk costing myself buyins at stakes i care about while i'm distracted by making changes to text opacity or whatever the hell it may be that i'm playing with.

last point, cos i'm going overboard. The quote from Robb is relevant.
Basically, the skillset you need to beat the stakes increases as you move up in stakes, but the skills are cumulative - you don't need to replace earlier learned skills with new ones. So, it's easier to learn a few things, apply them, tweak them, work on them if they're not fully absorbed, tick them off, learn some more, etc. And you can start beating a stake (2nl) with only a very few skills, but will require a few more skills to beat 10nl, and it will obviously take longer to learn a larger set of skills, and you will be trying to bed them in simultaneously which may end up taking even longer than doing it only a few at a time. Poorly explained there, but, ya know, i'm not being paid to write this and you probably get the guts of it
spotcha

[PlayToWin]

I know you're gonna give dranger a go and that's cool. But, if he gets too high and can't stop laughing at ya, here's another option. He's a regular on this site. He's moved up through the levels and is now playing 100NL.

Here's his Coaching page: Coaching

GL

[kiwiMark]

advertisement ban imo

[PlayToWin]

advertisement ban imo

Thanks for the support, kiwi. Seriously, I didn't think about it. I'm just trying to help the guy find a coach. It doesn't piss me off that he wants to start at 10NL. I'm not affilliated with the carrot and I don't owe him any favors. I just thought about using him myself at some point. Dude says he'll post on his progress, so I'd be interested in reading about it.

I'm sure Mr. Mod can edit the link if he wants.

[kiwiMark]

I was just taking the piss

[dranger7070]

So much anger itt

[Carroters]

Lol at this thread, epic.

1. There's nothing wrong with starting at 10NL if you feel you'll be bored and unmotivated at 2NL, and that you have a shot at being able to beat 10NL in the near future. Moreover, there's absolutely no point hindering your BR growth at 2NL when you can be playing higher. 10NL is not so high that it will cause majot disruption if you start losing and you can always move down just make sure you deposit enough to feel comfortable atyour chosen stake and I wouldn't go much higher than 10Nl to start off with if you're new tothe game. This crap about 2NL or 0NL is just a cliche and arbitrarily applied to people's personal situations often when it may not suit at all. FWIW I've never played a stake lower than 25NL, although I did play live for a few years before taking up online poker.

2. Coaching is definitely worth it for a cheap rate like $25 and is in no way simply a short cut to absorbing the information in the forums. It is a personal relationship where a coach helps a player out by constantly notcing and fixing leaks in thatplayers game. This is niether just confined to specific hands he posts nor is it done only by reading, trial and error like in the digests etc. It's a dynamic situation where the student literally gets his hand held and walked through everything in a lot of clarity repairing any puncutres as he goes.

3. Just to calrify, I'm not affiliated with Play2Win and I'm sure he was just unaware of the rules of FTR. Mods, please edit the post if it's a problem.

[Val Kilmer]

Lol at this thread, epic.

1. There's nothing wrong with starting at 10NL if you feel you'll be bored and unmotivated at 2NL..........Moreover, there's absolutely no point hindering your BR growth at 2NL..........This crap about 2NL or 0NL is just a cliche and arbitrarily applied to people's personal situations often when it may not suit at all.

Vindication!

Considering Carroters has been acknowledged as being a good player and coach, let's see how many of the previous posters throw insults and derogatory comments his way for saying exactly the same as I did.


Daven, thx for the explanation of your points. As mentioned though, and picked up by Carroters, I need to find a balance between being motivated enough to take it seriously and where I can sustain the losses. Plus, having someoen watch my progress - that I am paying for - is the extra motivation to make sure I focus.

[Carroters]

Bring it on bitches!!!!!!! I can handle yo shizzle!

[Arjonius]

If you have an adequate bankroll to play 10nl and are willing to accept that there's a fair probability you'll to lose it, by all means start at that level. It's not like the quality of play is hugely different from 2nl, so in terms of working your way up the ladder of opponent ability, you'll be starting at or pretty near the first rung anyway.

Also, while lots of people including myself have moved up past 10nl without formal coaching has nothing to do with whether it's a good fit with your mindset and goals. Again, if you can afford it, go for it. Assuming you become a reasonably consistent winner, you don't have to move up much to recoup any reasonable amount you invest. And if you don't recoup it, well, that's a point of the investment being affordable in the first place.

[spoonitnow]

{Locked}

This is getting out of hand. Good luck.