Best beat I've ever given

[ManicLombax]

I couldn't have lost this tourney if I had tried. Two ace high flushes, one flopped. Flopped a set of deuces. Then heads up with this guy, he draws the ace high flush on the turn, but I've flopped quad deuces. Tourney over in 32 minutes, blinds had just hit 50/100. One guy folded his way to 3rd place.

We're both slow playing each other here. Was really hoping he'd hit a flush and would come over me on the turn. Didn't think I'd get much here but hoping he'd call with a pair of Ts or something if my river shove looked like an obvious bluff.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) (t9680)
BB (t3820)

Hero's M: 64.53

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, 2
Hero calls t50, BB checks

Flop: (t200) 2, 2, 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t200) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t100, BB calls t100

River: (t400) 10 (2 players)
BB bets t100, Hero raises to t9480 (All-In), BB calls t3520 (All-In)

Total pot: t7640

Results:
Hero had 2, 2 (four of a kind, twos).
BB had A, J (flush, Ace high).
Outcome: Hero won t7640

[fulksy]

nice, why did you raise so much on the river.

[dneureiter]

1 out ninja!

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $20(BB) Replayer
SB ($1,480)
Hero ($1,500)

manic mebbe bet flop in your hand he calls with any draw / any pair / some overs don't hate check behind. Bet turn bigger. river is alright.
UTG ($3,540)
UTG+1 ($1,280)
UTG+2 ($1,420)
MP1 ($1,480)
CO ($1,400)
BTN ($1,400)

Dealt to Hero 5 5

fold, UTG+1 calls $20, UTG+2 calls $20, fold, fold, BTN calls $20, fold, Hero checks

FLOP ($90) A 8 5

Hero bets $80, UTG+1 calls $80, UTG+2 calls $80, BTN folds

TURN ($330) A 8 5 5

Hero bets $200, UTG+1 calls $200, UTG+2 folds

RIVER ($730) A 8 5 5 2

Hero bets $1,020, UTG+1 calls $980 (AI)

Hero shows 5 5
(Pre 19%, Flop 4.3%, Turn 97.7%)

UTG+1 shows A A
(Pre 81%, Flop 95.7%, Turn 2.3%)

Hero wins $2,690

[Fielmann]

Deep stacks mean that low pairs gain in value. Raise pre. You can make it 150, have fold equity and initiative and still have implied odds for set, with the exception that it will be easier to get stacks in.

why did you raise so much on the river.

is a very good question.

hoping he'd call with a pair of Ts or something if my river shove looked like an obvious bluff.

is not a bad start. Some other things to consider:

- Is winning 3000+ chips 10% of the times better than winning 500 chips 50% of the times?
- What is my opponent's range?

The latter question is especially important when extracting value with a good hand. For in the opposite situation, when our opponent makes a big bet and it's not immediately obvious whether we should call or fold, we think about opponent's range pretty much instinctively. Even a complete novice's thought process will then at least resemble the action of putting the opponent on a range.

When extracting value, however, it doesn't come as naturally. We usually base our decisions on slow-playing and bet-sizing on emotions, flop texture and perhaps some general tendencies of the opponent ("he's a station so I better bet"), but we don't really think of the range. That's why we suck on turn and river. Should we go for one street of value or two? If just one, then should it be turn or river? What would be the most optimal bet size? It is impossible to give a satisfying answer to these questions without thinking about opponent's range.

[ManicLombax]

Thanks much for the comments. Agree I actually played this pretty poorly. I thought about raising pf, but I just don't know how to play pocket deuces post flop unless I hit a set. I'm not good enough to read whether opponent has hit a pair, so I'd probably just check/fold most of the time. I guess if I bet though I can at least narrow down his range somewhat, though with blinds so low that might be tough too. I did think about shoving it though figuring he probably didn't have an overpair and might want to flip for it.

After I did hit the monster, if I were to do it again I'd bet about 200 on the flop, thinking he'll call if he has a straight/flush draw or possibly overcards, and I probably don't get much money otherwise anyhow. This sets up a bigger pot for bigger bets on the turn and river. I think my shove on the river was one of the classic beginner "oh crap I have quads and the pot is only 500 chips, well maybe he'll think I'm bluffing". In this case didn't matter since all the chips were going in, but obviously if he were a better player (and didn't have an A-high flush) I lose myself some chips here most of the time.

dneureiter your hand is even better than mine, that is just outstanding!

[Fielmann]

I thought about raising pf, but I just don't know how to play pocket deuces post flop unless I hit a set.

Do you know how to play pocket deuces post flop when you hit a set? (I'm probably being a smartass, but w/e, I think it's important.)
Anyways, how do you play AK post flop when you miss? Your hand is even weaker then. Yet you raise AK pre.

I did think about shoving it though figuring he probably didn't have an overpair and might want to flip for it.

Openshoving is rarely optimal when deeper than 15bb. Here it's 38bb.

Agree I actually played this pretty poorly.

As for river shove, no-one has said it was bad. I honestly don't know if it was bad, because I suck at turn and river. (That's why I'm specialised on two-street poker, aka SnG's.) The important thing here is that since the number of options presented to us at every street is very limited (2-3 options + maybe some fiddling with bet size), we unavoidably often make the right decision purely by accident. We should therefore concentrate not so much on whether the actions were right or wrong, but more on the thought processes that led to these actions.

[I shoved] hoping he'd call with a pair of Ts or something if my river shove looked like an obvious bluff.

is a good start. Trying to come up with a more precise range and adding some EV calculations would be even better. Simple

oh crap I have quads and the pot is only 500 chips

is admittedly less good.

[TLR]

Preflop: I definitely raise it preflop, postflop heads up in position is not that tough with PP, if he checks assume you have the best hand, if he bets it can get a bit tricky but you can safely fold.
Flop: Standard
Turn: I like your bet here, bet size is also OK relative to the size of the pot
River: I really hate the overbet here, with a pot relatively small you make his decision really easy with every hand that is not a Ten, with a flush he calls, but all the money would have probably be pushed into the middle anyhow, I would raise about pot

[baudib]

I'd raise preflop, bet 200 on the turn. I like shoving the river. This type of action, I expect him to have a big hand a lot -- typical $2 donk play when he thinks he has the nuts.