A real buzzkill (seriously; the environment dudes)

[Lukie]

I do not believe the suffering of one person is worth the joy of a billion. I am honestly not a fan of emotionally conscious life for this reason. I'm not a sociopath or something so I have no desire to take matters into my own hands, but on an abstract moral level...

re-quoting this because it's kind of bothering me.

you wouldn't actually deny joy/happiness to 1,000,000,000 people in order to prevent the suffering of 1 person, would you? that seems so incredibly immoral and absurd bording on lunacy that i just sort of skipped over it originally.

the above applies both to real and abstract moral levels, whatever that menas.

[wufwugy]

re-quoting this because it's kind of bothering me.

you wouldn't actually deny joy/happiness to 1,000,000,000 people in order to prevent the suffering of 1 person, would you? that seems so incredibly immoral and absurd bording on lunacy that i just sort of skipped over it originally.

the above applies both to real and abstract moral levels, whatever that menas.

It is not my assertion that is disturbing, but the reality we live in

The misery of others is mostly unfathomable and entirely unjustifiable. I haven't said anything crazy, only taboo and poorly understood.


Regardless, it's an abstraction, not a practicality. If you have read The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas, you may have noticed that one of the many profound implications of the allegory is that there is no real and practical solution. I think you've taken what I've said out of context.

I don't want to discuss this though. While we're dealing with some of the deepest fundamentals of morality, it's unsolvable. I shouldn't have mentioned it anyways. It wasn't really that relevant to my post in the first place. But it is absolutely true. Nothing justifies the misery of others. Humans naturally feel differently than this, but that has no bearing on the truth of the matter


In a nutshell, my position on this topic is whatever position optimally reduces suffering. Nothing insane about that.

RE: billionaires. I never said I don't like them, I said I don't like societies that are structured in such a way as to necessitate a few billionaires riding on the backs of a billion sufferers. My comments on billionaires in the past had to do with economic constructs, not that I think they're bad people or whatever

[Lukie]

It is not my assertion that is disturbing, but the reality we live in

yeah, the reality we live in is pretty disturbing. most of us just tend not to think about it much and i'll fully admit that i'm guilty of that as well.

The misery of others is mostly unfathomable and entirely unjustifiable. I haven't said anything crazy, only taboo and poorly understood.


Regardless, it's an abstraction, not a practicality. If you have read The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas, you may have noticed that one of the many profound implications of the allegory is that there is no real and practical solution. I think you've taken what I've said out of context.

possibly/probably

I don't want to discuss this though. While we're dealing with some of the deepest fundamentals of morality, it's unsolvable. I shouldn't have mentioned it anyways. It wasn't really that relevant to my post in the first place. But it is absolutely true. Nothing justifies the misery of others. Humans naturally feel differently than this, but that has no bearing on the truth of the matter

understandable if you don't want to discuss it. i will say though that 1,000,000,000 units of happiness/joy in my opinion justifies 1 unit of suffering given no better alternative. i'm not sure where i'd draw the line. i've spent all of 30 seconds thinking of it, and with little way of meaningfully quantifying it, i will set the line at 10:1 happiness:suffering as my starting point.

In a nutshell, my position on this topic is whatever position optimally reduces suffering. Nothing insane about that.

RE: billionaires. I never said I don't like them, I said I don't like societies that are structured in such a way as to necessitate a few billionaires riding on the backs of a billion sufferers. My comments on billionaires in the past had to do with economic constructs, not that I think they're bad people or whatever

fair enough. i think we agree in a roundabout way to an extent, although my point was mostly that you're an extremely smart guy and that you could do much more good in the world with the power, wealth, and status that comes with being more successful, but i have made similar points to you before and i feel it's mostly unwanted advice, maybe bordering on criticism but that's really not how i mean it.

[wufwugy]

i will set the line at 10:1 happiness:suffering as my starting point.

I have gone through some shit in this life. Not the absolute worst shit, but one small step below that. It is because of my experiences that I empathize so deeply with the miserable. It's impossible to understand the severity of dread and horribleness that real misery brings unless it is currently happening to you. I have personally never experienced any joy or pleasure that was even close in measuring up to the intensity of my deepest sorrow.

fair enough. i think we agree in a roundabout way to an extent, although my point was mostly that you're an extremely smart guy and that you could do much more good in the world with the power, wealth, and status that comes with being more successful, but i have made similar points to you before and i feel it's mostly unwanted advice, maybe bordering on criticism but that's really not how i mean it.

I did notice that, and when you've made the point in the past, I didn't miss it. I appreciate the kind words

I'm not exactly sure what to say. Life is a struggle, and the answers are sometimes not answers. Human instincts and desires are largely dilemmatic. Tackling the issues of how to live ones life is not something I will profess to have figured out because, frankly, my results would be different if I wasn't delusional