If you're homophobic, you're in the closet

[wufwugy]

Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? [J Abnorm Psychol. 1996] - PubMed result

The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.

[boost]

chicken or the egg imo.

Homophobia makes homosexual acts taboo to the homophobic, taboo acts can be arousing.

Not saying this is for sure the case, just a different way to view the results.

[jyms]

I've always felt there was some truth to this without reading the article yet.

[wufwugy]

chicken or the egg imo.

Homophobia makes homosexual acts taboo to the homophobic, taboo acts can be arousing.

Not saying this is for sure the case, just a different way to view the results.

I don't think it's the taboo that makes it arousing, but that which makes the homophobia. While that which we find arousing is too hard to exactly designate, we do know that it's incredibly genetically determined.

The abstract doesn't say what constitutes as "homosexual stimuli" though. I'm not sure I wanna find the full paper to find out. I only mention because there are some things that can be considered gay that actually are not. Like some forms of penis appreciation

[givememyleg]

you could just be an ignorant fuckwad too

[a500lbgorilla]

What if you just hate the gays in accord with God's wishes?

[wufwugy]

What if you just hate the gays in accord with God's wishes?

Are you saying God's in the closet too?

[boost]

I only mention because there are some things that can be considered gay that actually are not. Like some forms of penis appreciation

wat?

[wufwugy]

wat?

I was waiting for that

What I'm referring to is mainly the vicarious aspects of male sexuality. Many things from icon worship of the penis to liking watching other dudes get blown, cumshot, whatever

There seems to be a stark line between being able to be stimulated by arguably gay things and actually being attracted to the same sex. For example, a whole lot of men could hypothetically have gay sex in some ways, but not too many men are actually attracted to the masculinity e.g. bone structure, hair patterns, muscularity, etc. I'd say that there needs to be distinction between stimulation for stimulation's sake and actual sexual gender/characteristic attraction

[a500lbgorilla]

Are you saying God's in the closet too?

Could God possibly create a gay so alluring that it turns Him gay?

[boost]

I was waiting for that

What I'm referring to is mainly the vicarious aspects of male sexuality. Many things from icon worship of the penis to liking watching other dudes get blown, cumshot, whatever

There seems to be a stark line between being able to be stimulated by arguably gay things and actually being attracted to the same sex. For example, a whole lot of men could hypothetically have gay sex in some ways, but not too many men are actually attracted to the masculinity e.g. bone structure, hair patterns, muscularity, etc. I'd say that there needs to be distinction between stimulation for stimulation's sake and actual sexual gender/characteristic attraction

ah, ok this makes sense. Like, you don't really want to watch porn co-staring some little dick jerk, so therefore you want to see a nice big cock... which is pretty gay... ha..

[a500lbgorilla]

I recall in Hitchen's memoirs he talks about the mutual masturbation culture of his school years (an all male school). Hitch 22, a recommended read.

[wufwugy]

ah, ok this makes sense. Like, you don't really want to watch porn co-staring some little dick jerk, so therefore you want to see a nice big cock... which is pretty gay... ha..

Exactly

I think that's also one of the allures to traps. There is a stark contrast between men who like trannies and men who like other men. I mean, they're almost as different as heterosexuality and homosexuality are from each other

A lot of people like to call men who like traps gay, but research has shown that gay men tend to only like manly men, oftentimes to a greater degree than women like manly men.

My read on why some men like traps is mainly two things

1) Penis appreciation gone wild. Men are very hardwired to care so much about their own penis and own sexuality that there becomes indirect products of this with things like appreciating other penises. It may even go so far as to being attracted to other penises, but not to the other masculine features of the men with the penises

2) There's something to men acting like women. One of the primary reasons that homosexuality exists in the genome is due to its benefit to the population as a whole. A lot of human history involves groups of men who do not have the company of women for whatever reasons, and I think that possibly including sexuality within those groups could benefit their survival. One of the main ways this could happen is for some of the men to take on feminine roles as opposed to just them all taking on gay roles.

So I think that guys who like traps are most likely actually not gay at all, but that they're more a variation of heterosexuality. Actual homosexuality appears to be attraction to the gender qualities. The lines are never exact though. It's almost like sexuality is a spectrum

[wufwugy]

I recall in Hitchen's memoirs he talks about the mutual masturbation culture of his school years (an all male school). Hitch 22, a recommended read.

LOL Hitch had JO buddies

Seriously though, homosexuality exists due to its survival benefits to the population. So far the interpretation of that involves mainly two things. 1) Mothers having increased reproduction capacity/desires with indirect effects on offspring sexuality, and 2) sexual companionship and intimacy among the population

[d0zer]

I'm comfortable enough in my sexuality that I can do things gay enough to convince most people that I'm a faggot.


If you can't, yer prolly a fag, fags

[BennyLaRue]

e.g. bone structure, hair patterns, muscularity, etc.

What about mustaches?

[DropTheBanana]

One of the primary reasons that homosexuality exists in the genome is due to its benefit to the population as a whole. A lot of human history involves groups of men who do not have the company of women for whatever reasons, and I think that possibly including sexuality within those groups could benefit their survival. One of the main ways this could happen is for some of the men to take on feminine roles as opposed to just them all taking on gay roles.

This reminded me of this YouTube - Norm MacDonald - World''s First Two Gay Guys (Part 1 of 3)

[Ash256]

So I think that guys who like traps are most likely actually not gay at all, but that they're more a variation of heterosexuality. Actual homosexuality appears to be attraction to the gender qualities. The lines are never exact though. It's almost like sexuality is a spectrum

Would you be more likely to place a like of traps in terms of a bisexuality (i.e. not 1 on the Kinsey scale), or in terms of a sexual fixation (fetish is the wrong term here), in the same way you'd place a particular like of facesitting, older women or incest in terms of a fixation?

[boost]

Would you be more likely to place a like of traps in terms of a bisexuality (i.e. not 1 on the Kinsey scale), or in terms of a sexual fixation (fetish is the wrong term here), in the same way you'd place a particular like of facesitting, older women or incest in terms of a fixation?

I clearly am not well read on this stuff, but could you explain the difference between a fixation and a fetish?

[wufwugy]

This reminded me of this YouTube - Norm MacDonald - World''s First Two Gay Guys (Part 1 of 3)

ho lee shit that was way too funny

[Ash256]

I clearly am not well read on this stuff, but could you explain the difference between a fixation and a fetish?

I'm not that well read either but fetish seems to be the incorrect term according to the definitions on Sexual fetishism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I'm pretty sure fixation is an incorrect term as well but I didn't want to use the word fetish as it has more narrow obsessive connotations (and the academic definitions specifically refer to inanimate objects).

In my mind, someone with a strong penchant for BBWs or traps is less likely to have a fetish than someone with a strong penchant for latex, feet or diapers, mostly because the focus is on the sexual experience as a whole, rather than one particular obsessive aspect.

[wufwugy]

Would you be more likely to place a like of traps in terms of a bisexuality (i.e. not 1 on the Kinsey scale), or in terms of a sexual fixation (fetish is the wrong term here), in the same way you'd place a particular like of facesitting, older women or incest in terms of a fixation?

Not sure of your distinction between fetish and fixation, but I normally categorize them as the same, so I'll do that

I think it would be more of a fetish than Kinsey scale gay. I think a good way of looking at it is that you have traditional heteros, traditional homos, and a whole myriad of fetishes within and between the two. There is very strong evidence that there are solid "traditional" heteros and homos i.e. people that are genetically and firmly in place on one end of the spectrum and have strong attractions to the particular gender exclusively, yet there are appearing more and more people coming out as non-traditionally attracted to all sorts of things. Both inter and/or intra gender


As for men who like traps specifically, I'm not sure. An argument could be made that they're gay yet hiding it, but I don't find that to be that reasonable. Even closeted gay men know. You always know, many just hide it. I think a lot of guys who like traps are open enough that they would admit to liking dudes if they actually did.



Actually, you could probably get away with calling any sexual orientation a fetish. Our jargon could simply be a product of easy to recognize distributions, but that doesn't mean that the attraction itself doesn't operate like a fetish. I mean if I were to break down what I like it would seem very usual but also very fetishy.

I'm not that well read either but fetish seems to be the incorrect term according to the definitions on Sexual fetishism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I'm pretty sure fixation is an incorrect term as well but I didn't want to use the word fetish as it has more narrow obsessive connotations (and the academic definitions specifically refer to inanimate objects).

I kinda disregard this. For specific professional purposes, it's important to get it right, but connotatively and even denotatively, "fetish" has taken on the form of virtually all sorts of sexual fixations

In my mind, someone with a strong penchant for BBWs or traps is less likely to have a fetish than someone with a strong penchant for latex, feet or diapers, mostly because the focus is on the sexual experience as a whole, rather than one particular obsessive aspect.

I honestly don't see a difference. I'm not even sure you can find sexual desires that aren't fixations. It's just that some are more weird than others.

I'm about as hetero as it gets, yet my attraction to women is about a handful of simple fixations. Without those, I'm not attracted to women at all

[boost]

I'm about as hetero as it gets, yet my attraction to women is about a handful of simple fixations. Without those, I'm not attracted to women at all

hmph.. interesting.

[triumphant cracker]

This reminded me of this YouTube - Norm MacDonald - World''s First Two Gay Guys (Part 1 of 3)

just as funny. YouTube - Ridiculous!

[Monty3038]

Hmm... I think Kinison said it best... "How can one man can look at another man's hairy ass and find love?"

Or something to that effect.

[JL]

Hmm... I think Kinison said it best... "How can one man can look at another man's hairy ass and find love?"

Or something to that effect.

That's dumb. Women aren't attracted to our hairy asses. Homosexual men are not attracted to other men's hairy ass. They are attracted to men for the same reason women are attracted to men, ldo.

[wufwugy]

That's dumb. Women aren't attracted to our hairy asses. Homosexual men are not attracted to other men's hairy ass. They are attracted to men for the same reason women are attracted to men, ldo.

I'm not exactly sure of that

I think it has more to do with homosexual men having a gender switch attraction, not becoming like women. Gay men do not take on all the non-physical and emotional stuff that women do. They're attracted to what they're attracted to just the way hetero men are

Women tend to not pick men based on how they look, men tend to pick women based on how they look. Gay men are like the latter not the former

Also, the gayest guy I've known really liked hairy men and hated effeminate men. He would fit the research that most gay men tend to be attracted to manliness, which is contrary to what a lot of people think. I'd predict that most gay men would prefer coal miners over twilight faggots, whereas with women most of them may prefer the twilight faggotry

[d0zer]

They are attracted to men for the same reason women are attracted to men, ldo.

Pretty sure that's untrue given the multitude of differences between male & female attraction and sexuality. Gay guys aren't women with dicks, despite what pop culture would suggest.

[d0zer]

I'd predict that most gay men would prefer coal miners over twilight faggots, whereas with women most of them may prefer the twilight faggotry

You may have beat me to the JL punch, but these predictions suck.

[JL]

My point was that gay men aren't attracted to other men because they like hairy asses.

[gabe]

i bet on a friend (lets call him elton) of mine being gay. i posted the money and get 3:1 if elton ever comes out of the closet. if he never does, the person i bet with forever keeps the money. elton seems homophobic way more than most people (although he has tempered it now that im around). he goes out of his way to be anti-gay like refusing to be a unicorn in a video game for no clear apparent reason. thats not real homophobia but there has to be some internalized gay resistance going on IMO, which is congruent with the study in the OP. i hope its true because it will result in me shipping some nice $$$

[ensign_lee]

That's an interesting bet. I assume then that you gave him teh money upfront (since otherwise there's no real way for him to win) and then if you're ver right he gives you that money back x4 (3x for winnings, 1x for initial stake)?

[wufwugy]

You may have beat me to the JL punch, but these predictions suck.

Explain

[jyms]

I think you guys are way over generalizing what gay men want in a partner. It's no different than us talking about women and the variations we prefer. I'm sure there are as many varying opinions of what's hot and what isn't in the gay community. The only thing I have a hard time understanding is why do so many lesbian women go out or their way to look like men or date that type when they like women? Or why do some gay men only like CD or TG types when they prefer men? Maybe it's just the same as me liking the amazon type women, who knows.

[wufwugy]

CD, TG?

[jyms]

Oh good, now I have to show my knowledge of the gay community?

CrossDressers
TransGendered

[boost]

Or why do some gay men only like CD or TG types when they prefer men? Maybe it's just the same as me liking the amazon type women, who knows.

As has been stated upthread, typically gay men are weirded out and not attracted to transexuals. In a candid convo with a guy I worked with the subject came up and he pretty much said that they are not at all part of the gay community and that its pretty much always "straight" guys that go for them.

[wufwugy]

As has been stated upthread, typically gay men are weirded out and not attracted to transexuals. In a candid convo with a guy I worked with the subject came up and he pretty much said that they are not at all part of the gay community and that its pretty much always "straight" guys that go for them.

That jives up well with my original analysis. Homosexuality seems more like a flipflop of attraction, while virtually everything else is a variation of heterosexuality or also a "misfiring" of sexuality that could be said to still be borne more out of hetero than homo

Even pedophilia is thought to be a sort of biological misfiring based in things like mens' enormous desires to protect their sexuality and protect children. There are also huge social factors in pedophilia too so much so that the genes that prompt it may not ever be triggered under different circumstances.

[d0zer]

Explain

I'm sure you're well aware of the "strong" forces of sexual attraction for both men and women. Preferences like lumberjack vs metrosexual are weaker forces and involve all that silly subjectivity.

So maybe most women's dream is a rich, powerful, confident metrosexual, but the metrosexual part is a footnote on that grocery list.

As for gay men, it seems like everyone has their type. Do most want lumberjacks? If that's true, I would imagine that it's barely true because as jyms said, there's just so much inherent variance in individual preference that for an overwhelming majority to develop, there would have to be some driving force for that majority -- and as far as I can tell, none exists.

[wufwugy]

I'm sure you're well aware of the "strong" forces of sexual attraction for both men and women. Preferences like lumberjack vs metrosexual are weaker forces and involve all that silly subjectivity.

So maybe most women's dream is a rich, powerful, confident metrosexual, but the metrosexual part is a footnote on that grocery list.

As for gay men, it seems like everyone has their type. Do most want lumberjacks? If that's true, I would imagine that it's barely true because as jyms said, there's just so much inherent variance in individual preference that for an overwhelming majority to develop, there would have to be some driving force for that majority -- and as far as I can tell, none exists.

It's difficult to isolate because something like hygiene will play an indirect but important role. So even if more gay men like lumberjacks, they may still gravitate towards metros for hygienic purposes or a host of other purposes

The research I have seen though suggests that gay men prefer physical masculinity more than people think and probably more than women do

[Monty3038]

Way to miss the point of a little humor being injected.

[d0zer]

The research I have seen though suggests that gay men prefer physical masculinity more than people think and probably more than women do

Oh hi, I'm wufwugy and I've seen research that suggests gay men prefer masculinity more than women do.

Not that this is particularly important, but it kinda cracks me up. link?

[bigred]

The research I've seen suggests you're all stupid.

[wufwugy]

Oh hi, I'm wufwugy and I've seen research that suggests gay men prefer masculinity more than women do.

Not that this is particularly important, but it kinda cracks me up. link?

It would take like 2 hours to find it again. So no, I don't have a source

[d0zer]

WELL ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT

I believe the gay men liking masculinity thing, it was more the claim that most women want "twilight faggotry" that I took issue with. ...or were you talking about gay women?

[bigred]

i bet on a friend (lets call him elton) of mine being gay. i posted the money and get 3:1 if elton ever comes out of the closet. if he never does, the person i bet with forever keeps the money. elton seems homophobic way more than most people (although he has tempered it now that im around). he goes out of his way to be anti-gay like refusing to be a unicorn in a video game for no clear apparent reason. thats not real homophobia but there has to be some internalized gay resistance going on IMO, which is congruent with the study in the OP. i hope its true because it will result in me shipping some nice $$$

Is dude good looking? I'm seeing a double win situation for you

[wufwugy]

WELL ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT

I believe the gay men liking masculinity thing, it was more the claim that most women want "twilight faggotry" that I took issue with. ...or were you talking about gay women?

Well, Twilight is pretty basic porn for women.

There is some decent variety in what women like. Oftentimes they're more dilemmatic than men though. But Twilight exists almost exclusively because it's girl porn. The funny thing is that most women don't even realize this about Twilight. They say it's a good movie or blah blah. It's not, it's girl porn. Very few popular movies are as much girl porn as that one. Even movies like The Notebook aren't even close

The only thing in the entire world that would ever create a heavily breathing, sparkling, shiny, metro vampire douche is a woman's vagina

[bigred]

Wufwugy, the research I've seen suggests Twilight is not just girl porn.

[wufwugy]

Wufwugy, the research I've seen suggests Twilight is not just girl porn.

[Monty3038]

The research I've seen suggests you're all stupid.

Well I know I am.

I was raised in a homophobic, racist, abusive, destructive environment. And I turned out to be about 70% tolerant of just about anything... so I think I did pretty good. But when I think of racist or homophobic comments, I know it is stupid... so that makes me stupid in correlation.

Or I could just be responding after drinking.

[d0zer]

Well, Twilight is pretty basic porn for women.

There is some decent variety in what women like. Oftentimes they're more dilemmatic than men though. But Twilight exists almost exclusively because it's girl porn. The funny thing is that most women don't even realize this about Twilight. They say it's a good movie or blah blah. It's not, it's girl porn. Very few popular movies are as much girl porn as that one. Even movies like The Notebook aren't even close

The only thing in the entire world that would ever create a heavily breathing, sparkling, shiny, metro vampire douche is a woman's vagina

lol wat

this thread is absurd