50nl- funky/bad line deep, 4bp

[unclesteve]

villain is a pretty bad reg, runs 22/17, 9%3B and loves to 3B me... most of his stats look pretty solid, but he can take some very unusual lines.

Notes: -3B tight regs CO open from BTN, call 4ball w/Q2s
-will turn any PP that's not an OP into a bluffcatcher
-random float w/Khi on 6hi brd w/o any draw, donk overcard turn.

OK, so he's not giving my opens much respect, is it ok to adjust in this way? 4B with a blocker? Wait for a wider value range to flat his 3Bs with might be better? KJo and QTs and stuff...? Is this 4b terrible coz we're deep? How deep do we have to be b4 flatting 4bets becomes correct?


as played, I couldn't see what he ever donked with on this brd, and because of my note that he can randomly float to donk, I thought this much be a situation where this was what he was doing. I didn't see any reason to raise flop

I wanted to bet turn, but it occurred to me that I could better rep a nutted hand by ckbking and betting river... maybe better to bet turn? If he led river I was gonna jam over, coz he can only be either continuing with his bluffs or have hit a 9x/Tx hand.


Cereus Network - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $143.84
BB: $69.60
UTG: $159.00
Hero (BTN): $87.50

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has A 4

fold, Hero raises to $1.50, SB raises to $5.00, fold, Hero raises to $12.00, SB calls $7.00

Flop: ($24.50, 2 players) K 8 5
SB bets $12.00, Hero calls $12.00

Turn: ($48.50, 2 players) T
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($48.50, 2 players) 9
SB checks, Hero bets $30.25,

[pocketfours]

Looks fine.

it occurred to me that I could better rep a nutted hand by ckbking and betting river...

This doesn't make sense. You're repping KQ/QQ/99.

[Ravageur]

While I think he has garbage here a ton so you have to bet, I'd definitely have bet turn/shove river as a better line.

[griffey24]

yah I'd probably go $16 turn/shove river.

[unclesteve]

wow, I was expecting to get flamed for this entire hand, lol

If the turn had been the 2d would a ckbk be better? Coz I'd prolly ckbk this card with my entire range to let him keep bluffing river... makes sense to bet this turn that puts alot of draws on the board though

comments on the 4b?

[griffey24]

I mean, I don't think anyone is gonna have a big problem with randomly four betting with Ax sometimes.

So given that, once he flats it and leads this flop, his line is such complete bs that a float seems pretty reasonable.

As long as your timing is believable for a hand like AK/AA/KK or something, then I like it.

[Mr. Diamond]

Looks fine.

It means that you like this line more than bet turn/bet river??




unclesteve:
I don't get 2 things:

- I think it does not make sense to DB w/ K+, so he is probably trying to steal it w/ some random shit - so why are you giving free card on the turn to his QJ, random spades, etc.??

- and if you think its blocking bet w/ TT, 98, etc. (and you are not bluffing turn), then why are you calling flop??

[unclesteve]

I guess I wasn't sure if I should bet turn or river... I think your right though, turn should be a bet considering how deep we are. My primary reason for ckbking turn here was taht if we had, say KJo or sth, I'd often ckbk turn to let him catch or continue with his bluffs on the river. After discussing it though, I think that KJo is near the top of my range here and I really need to start getting money into the pot coz we're deep and stuff. But yeah, that was my reasoning at the time, but now I think it's flawed so turn shoudl be a bet.

I never ever thought he was blocking here, due to my reads, my plan at the time was to ckbk turn and if he led river, to jam over, and if he didn't to bet it, like what happened.

[pocketfours]

It means that you like this line more than bet turn/bet river??

Yeah. I don't like a jam if villain leads river though.

[Mr. Diamond]

Yeah. I don't like a jam if villain leads river though.

Thanks a lot. I thought about it more than one hour and I realized few things. Your line is definitely better. Poker is so easy

[unclesteve]

wait, so now ckbking turn and betting river is better?

I'm confused again...

Isn't it better to bet turn coz we often would on this drawy turncard with Kx and the like...?

[pocketfours]

wait, so now ckbking turn and betting river is better?

There's a thousand variables to consider and no hard truths. I happen to think that this hand was played perfectly, while some other good players prefer the option of betting the turn. The only conclusion you can make is that neither line is probably terrible.

The point of these threads isn't to make a conclusion about which play is best, it doesn't even matter. It's about discussion and learning to see things and variables in various situations that you didn't know existed.

[Mr. Diamond]

wait, so now ckbking turn and betting river is better?

I'm confused again...

Isn't it better to bet turn coz we often would on this drawy turncard with Kx and the like...?

but you are probably cback QQ, JJ, 99, Tx, etc., right??


that turn check/river bet line:
When he DB flop he is probably fos (we have nice odds - call). That Ts makes a lot of SDFD and you said, that he can make some weird play (so it would be sick to get c/r from Q9ss, etc., because we have better hand) + we have some SD value + his hand will be face up on the river.
River - He will bet every K+ and maybe some bluffs (this is why shoving is probably not good) and his checking range will be full of small SD value like 8x, 9x, Tx, etc.(+ some random bs what decided to not bluff) and then if we bet that 30 and he folds more than 38% (and this % will be a lot higher) - we are making money