Chicken Burger/Sandwich

[WillburForce]

I'm starting up a catering business, mainly selling kick-ass chicken burgers/sandwichs from a funked up van round London. Street Food is the new catering revolution! (I'll post pics once van is converted, but its a Citroen H 1969 if anyones interested).

I've got 3 or 4 recipe so far.

1 of which is : Chicken breast marinated in homemade chipolte sauce, then dusted in cayane seasoned flour and griddled. Mozzarella, raddicio lettuce, chipolte mayo on sour dough bun. This can be a spicy mofo as I'm planning to have lots of homemade chilli dips on offer.


Anyone got any awesome chicken burgers/sandwichs they've had, wanna have?

[BooG690]

Cross-post from drunk thread: http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post1857680

So whenever I get drunk, there's only one thing that'll calm my hunger.



Garlic sesame bread with fried chicken cutlet, bacon, melted American cheese, gravy, and waffle fries (IN THE SANDWICH) ftw!

[pantherhound]

Where will you be popping up? I work on Old St and there is Whitecross Market just across the way...

[WillburForce]

White Cross St is on my list. Hard to get a pitch there though.

My van is like the green Mexican (Luardos) van who sell on White Cross St.

I'm gonna be selling end artisan high chicken burgers.

[boost]

From what I gather in this thread, your business sounds doomed.

Good luck though.

[bikes]

way to crush the man's soul boost.

[boost]

meh, if he ventures further, at least he is familiar with the feeling.

[WillburForce]

From what I gather in this thread, your business sounds doomed.

Good luck though.

why?

I've got it pretty well planned out. Street food is taking off in the UK. I've got a really cool van, a really cool website that will be up shortly, plus some great contacts.

I was interersted to hear about any ideas people may have for burgers they've eaten or would want to eat, but I have the recipes down mostly.

[OngBonga]

1 of which is : Chicken breast marinated in homemade chipolte sauce, then dusted in cayane seasoned flour and griddled. Mozzarella, raddicio lettuce, chipolte mayo on sour dough bun. This can be a spicy mofo as I'm planning to have lots of homemade chilli dips on offer.

Fuck the mayo off and you've got a monster burger there. A strip of crispy bacon wouldn't hurt.

[wufwugy]

imo

[OngBonga]

Also, pitching near football grounds on matchday will probably make the likes of Boost eat his words. I don't see why this wouldn't be a success, I mean you're already in the top 2% of British burger vans by using chicken breast as opposed eyes and feet.

[wufwugy]

Fuck the mayo off and you've got a monster burger there. A strip of crispy bacon wouldn't hurt.

wtffffffffffffffffff no mayo? you are a terrible american

i guess that's why we kicked your ass in vietnam

[WillburForce]

Fuck the mayo off and you've got a monster burger there. A strip of crispy bacon wouldn't hurt.

I can hold the mayo if you ask nicely...

[OngBonga]

wtffffffffffffffffff no mayo? you are a terrible american

i guess that's why we kicked your ass in vietnam

That makes so little sense, it's possibly the best thing I heard all day.

Seriously though, mayo is for fat girls and male ballet dancers.

[wufwugy]

[OngBonga]

I can hold the mayo if you ask nicely...

"fuck the mayo off please"

That ok?

[WillburForce]

meh, if he ventures further, at least he is familiar with the feeling.

?

[WillburForce]

"fuck the mayo off please"

That ok?

I got special "mayo" for people like you

[OngBonga]

I got special "mayo" for people like you

The same special mayo you get on a Big Mac from the Kidderminster Drive-thru branch?

[WillburForce]

The same special mayo you get on a Big Mac from the Kidderminster Drive-thru branch?

No longer available. I got the sack.

[wufwugy]

[OngBonga]

Is that what people think a stereotypical Brit looks like? Maybe in 1923. Having said that, his facial hair is pretty awesome.

[boost]

-opening and operating a food service establishment is a very complex and difficult thing to pull off-- a mobile food dispensary is all that much more complicated.

-this is an industry with incredibly small profit margins in comparison to the fickleness and quickly shifting trends.

-you can eek out a comfortable, if not stable, living by operating a food truck. Key words being "you" and "operating." If you think you'll hire someone else to work the truck, and you'll just oversee things... well, you'll be making pennies unless you are sending out several vans or...

-unique and novel concepts are often rewarded heavily when they are pulled off. You can charge more, and attract more customers simply by having the cool new concept. Chicken sandwiches are neither unique nor novel.



If you do go through with this, I wish you the best of luck-- but you've gotta figure out an angle to be successful. What is the draw? Why would I care to eat at your truck rather than anywhere else? Are you planning to network with Promoters and set up at venues where you have a captive audience? From what I can tell though you just seem to have a "if you build it, they will come" mentality-- but maybe this is a bad read.

Either way, I'd be interested to see what the other sandwich concepts are-- I just hope they are more inspired than the one you posted. I'm not saying it would make for a bad sandwich... but reading the description does not really make me excited to fork over my money.

edit: also, what sort of experience do you have in the industry? Being able to cook one really good sandwich-- which doesn't give you food poising-- in your home is far different from being able to cook dozens, if not hundreds in a day.

[BennyLaRue]

Is that what people think a stereotypical Brit looks like? Maybe in 1923. Having said that, his facial hair is pretty awesome.

If you don't look like that, maybe you're not 100% British.

[supa]

-opening and operating a food service establishment is a very complex and difficult thing to pull off-- a mobile food dispensary is all that much more complicated.

Have you seen who's running the food trucks in Santa Monica? Srsly can't be that hard.

[OngBonga]

If you don't look like that, maybe you're not 100% British.

Maybe I will look like that when I'm his age. I'd be proud of that 'touche.

Boost, you seem to forget one thing... he plans to operate in London, a city of over 7 million people in a country full of lazy people who will eat pretty much anything. If people see his van, he'll get business. If his food is good, people will remember where he is and go back. There's a huge profit margin in this line of business, at least in this country. A burger that costs around a pound to produce will sell for something like £5 in London.

Oh, wilbur, the summer music festivals would be a goldmine for a business like this. A proper chicken burger would have people queueing up all day, no question.

[boost]

Boost, you seem to forget one thing... he plans to operate in London, a city of over 7 million people in a country full of lazy people who will eat pretty much anything.

Many people think like this. And this is a big reason for the high failure rate in the industry

If people see his van, he'll get business. If his food is good, people will remember where he is and go back.

Lots more than just "good food" goes into acquiring and maintaining repeat customers. But yes, if his food is good, it will help to establish a loyal clientele.

There's a huge profit margin in this line of business, at least in this country.

No. Absolutely not, no.

A burger that costs around a pound to produce will sell for something like £5 in London.

You clearly don't have the slightest clue about this industry. No one-- and I repeat, no one-- has a 80% profit margin in this industry. The fact that you think such an astronomical figure is realistic is simply laughable.

[rpm]

good luck with the venture. if i were to open up something like this i'd make sure at least one burger had one or more of the following: aioli, avocado, red onion. if i was the business' only customer then every burger would have those ingredients in it.

[rpm]

ps, boog that looks like the most unhealthy (and thus, delicious ldo) roll/burger/sandwich/whatever you call it i have ever seen.

[OngBonga]

You clearly don't have the slightest clue about this industry. No one-- and I repeat, no one-- has a 80% profit margin in this industry. The fact that you think such an astronomical figure is realistic is simply laughable.

Well, you're right about me not having much of a clue about the industry, but it doesn't seem you do either to be honest. I dunno, anyone know how much it costs to produce one chicken burger, taking into account cost of chicken, bread, mayo, lettuce, chilli sauce, fuel for van, other overheads etc? I know how much money people are willing to pay for good fast food in London, and if there's not a huge profit margin there, then someone is buying stock off the wrong person.

No-one has an 80% profit margin in this industry? Obviously you haven't eaten a burger from a van at a football match, or at a music festival.

[OngBonga]

Also, selling something for £5 that cost £1 to produce is a much bigger profit margin than 80%, I make it 400%, though it's not an important point.

[wufwugy]

Ooogie, there's a ton of unexpected costs in restaurant/food industry. I think wilbur is doing something cool though so I really hope he kicks ass

[wufwugy]

But, I bet the UK is one of the best markets since they're the fattest people in the world (who knew anybody could beat the US), and it sounds like there might not be market saturation in convenient fast food

[OngBonga]

Ooogie, there's a ton of unexpected costs in restaurant/food industry.

I don't doubt it, but I stand by my "huge profit margin" comment, providing the entrepreneur is doing things correctly. Even if it costs £2 per burger with all costs accounted for (I'd be surprised if it actually was this much), we're at 150% profit selling at £5. There's a lot of money to be made if wilbur isn't afraid of hard work.

[DoubleJ]

White Cross St is on my list....

Borough Market? I'm queuing already...

[BooG690]

ps, boog that looks like the most unhealthy (and thus, delicious ldo) roll/burger/sandwich/whatever you call it i have ever seen.

Yeah. It's always a really bad choice to have one. I never choose to have one sober. Whenever I drink/smoke, my judgment skills are out the door and it becomes the best idea in the world.

[WillburForce]

I got a full business plan laid out.

The company is called Funky Chicken.

My uncle is an organic chicken farmer (he sells at farmers markets round London and does very well), so I have a really good chicken product.

Street food is massive at the moment in the UK. People love good food. I'm not going to be sellling shitty burgers. This is quality chicken burgers/snadwichs. The aim is to get known as doing the best chicken burgers in London.
I'm also going to be going to all the festivals (Glastonbury, Reading, Isle of White etc) and the food festivals held most weekends round UK.
Plus pop ups outside cool London pubs - round Dalston, Shoreditch etc..

Aim is 2-3 days a week in London during the week, then Sat and most Sundays.

Burgers will be £5-£7, but they will be massive mofos.

This is what my van will look like roughly.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

My website is going to be cool and be linked to twitter/FB so people can "Follow The Funk".

The burgers are going to have funk based names.

So you have The Funkadelic which will be a spicy mofo. The Bootsy etc. Then there's gonna be The Mothership. This is one huge, spicy funked up burger.


Margins are pretty good. I should make 100%+ on all food sold, which includes pitch costs, insurance, van costs etc etc.

The festivals you can make a killing. Captive drunk/stoned audience. Pitch costs are large, but you can sell all day so make loads of money.

Gonna be hard work, but looking forward to my own business. Plan is to branch out with more vans, maybe into Funky Chicken Shacks at some point in the future. I got a few friends very keen to invest and get involved.

When its up and running in next coupla months I'll post up links etc. Sure any FTR's who are in London can get a discounted Funky Chicken!

[givememyleg]

looks awesome. best of luck.

[Luco]

If I venture up the M4 in the new year I'll def swing by.

And yeah, considering the thousands of unlicensed 'hot dog' (use that term loosely) vendors in London making a killing I'm sure you'll do fine. GL

[DoubleJ]

This is what my van will look like roughly

'kin awesome, man!

i'm so hungry right now...

[OngBonga]

Nice van! If I see it at any of the festivals I'm at next year, I'll be sure to head over with my friends. I like the funk theme, I hope if you're doing the festivals you'll have a soundsytem with some quality funk playing!

Best of luck.

[OngBonga]

Haha just noticed the "Papa's got a brand new bap". Love it!

[BennyLaRue]

Do you have a Portuguese-style sandwich on the menu? Piri piri sauce is amazing.

I'm a big fan of chimichurri with chicken as well but would need a good crusty bun so it wouldn't get too soggy.

GL, dude.

[WillburForce]

I'm planning to keep it very simple. Just 4-5 top notch burgers.

One will no doubt be piri-piri, plus a mexican style one. They'll be plenty of chilli sauces for people to crazy with.

I'm thinking of having a burger called something like the Funk-up. This will be a pattie (made from the left over breast trimmings), which will change every week or so. I'll see what is happening around the time - say Divali I'll do an Indian inspired burger or over Jewish new year, some sort of Jewish inspired thing.

[WillburForce]

Nice van! If I see it at any of the festivals I'm at next year, I'll be sure to head over with my friends. I like the funk theme, I hope if you're doing the festivals you'll have a soundsytem with some quality funk playing!

Best of luck.

Defo gonna be rocking the funk while serving. Shiiiiiiiiiiit thats tasty!

[d0zer]

the van looks awesome. that alone will guarantee you success!

[BennyLaRue]

I'm thinking of having a burger called something like the Funk-up. This will be a pattie (made from the left over breast trimmings), which will change every week or so. I'll see what is happening around the time - say Divali I'll do an Indian inspired burger or over Jewish new year, some sort of Jewish inspired thing.

Around Canada Day, you can put poutine on it, amirite?

[WillburForce]

Around Canada Day, you can put poutine on it, amirite?

I had to google. Ewwwruugh. That looks rank!

[d0zer]

foff, poutine is the shit. Gravy & cheese on fries. how could you go wrong? also add bacon bits if you're really trying to stop your heart.

[JR9477]

What kind of food service equipment are you going to have the van loaded up with?

[WillburForce]

What kind of food service equipment are you going to have the van loaded up with?

I'm getting it professionally kitted out by a company that specialise. Costing a small fortune...

Fridge, griddle and deep fat fryer, plus some bain-maries. You can add more stuff as you need.

The van is a shell at the moment. Its gonna be completely lined with stainless steel, then have all the equipment put in. All has to meet hygiene standards so I couldn't do myself. Not that I could anyways cause I retard with that sort of thing...

[WillburForce]

foff, poutine is the shit. Gravy & cheese on fries. how could you go wrong? also add bacon bits if you're really trying to stop your heart.

Sure it tastes good after a few beers..!

[BennyLaRue]

I had to google. Ewwwruugh. That looks rank!

It would sort of end up like Boog's drunk sandwich.

[JR9477]

That chipolte sandwich sounds really good, mayo and all.

Are you going to cook everything up to order?

[pantherhound]

Well, you're right about me not having much of a clue about the industry, but it doesn't seem you do either to be honest.

Lol, you may not want to go there.

Boost is right. The upside is the van does look good and start-up costs are relatively small for this line of business!

Park up in whitecross and I'll swing round. It does seem possible to get a spot there - there have been new stalls popping up sporadically - but a lot do seem to vanish too. The LUARDOS burrito van and the Italian stall are the bosses here - because they are consistently good and have their system sorted to the 't'. You'll need to be addicted to shovelling consistent quality down the public maw and not just decide halfway through lunch that you can't be arsed any more. Maybe you're 100 per cent sure you won't flag during service, but like boost says you won't be able to get many others (if any) on the payroll, at least to begin with.

Downside: I go to Whitecross most days and I noticed a lot of stalls towards the back (Waitrose side) just don't get business, everyone comes from the Old St side so if they don't get past the Italian/Burrito/Thai stalls you're toast. And they don't

Oh, and read Kitchen Confidential if you haven't already...it's obv about restaurants but a lot of concepts apply

[OngBonga]

Lol, you may not want to go there.

Too late, I went there! I think he's too pessimistic, while I'm too optimistic. I suspect the real world is somewhere in between. Wilbur has clearly done his homework, and I doubt he's unaware of the hard work required to do this alone. It's a sound idea that if followed through correctly, there's a ton of money to be made, especially in London and at festivals where people will pay silly prices, that was my point. Judging by what I've read in this thread, he's going about it correctly, so I believe this venture will reap its rewards.

[supa]

Boosts pessimism was warranted I think. Thread was started with a "Hey, I'm gonna sell some sammiches outta mah dirty hippie van" kind of feel to it. Obv WBF has got his shit well more together than that. GL Wilbur.

[JR9477]

Not sure how the UK crowd compares, but you could do a Pulled BBQ chicken sandwich. Cook it up prior and just keep it hot. It'd be a very easy menu item that would allow you to use up any waste chicken. (Waste being change orders, messed up orders, or less than ideal pieces.)

My concern is about the cooking and operations of the actual business. You going to be able to keep up if there's a huge rush?

[WillburForce]

Everything will be cooked fresh.

I will have someone working with me - I can't do it on my own, but I will only be paying minimum wages to the poor fellow. Jobs a job though. As for festivals - loads of people wanna work them - free ticket and some spending money.

I've worked on a few food stalls before(helping out my uncle) so I know what to expect and the best way is to try and get a slick operation churning them out. There is no dip in quality. Everything is ready to go. Then keep the burgers griddling, while the oter peson sorts out the sauce, lettuce, buns etc...and takes the money.

That's why I'm only having 3-4 burgers. Keep it easy for everyone.Then get a rep as the best chicken burgers in town!

Follow The Funk mofos!

[JR9477]

Sounds like you got it together, I wish you the best with this. If my gf ever gets that trip to the UK she wants, I might make a point of hunting your van down.

[WillburForce]

I've enquired about White Cross St - bout a year wait! Got my name down so If a space comes up I'll see.

Theres loads of food markets popping all the time. Plus I'm joining a street food "community" (Eat St.com) which should create business.

From what I can gather, once you're up and running, business finds you. I live in SW London and I know of 4-5 markets within 3 miles that run once a week. So if you work in say Richmond, and you're fed up of Pret a Manger etc you know that on Thursday there's a food market with interesting food, one of which is the Funkwagon, with WBF serving you a Funkadelic burger!

[WillburForce]

TY for all the GL's.

[oskar]

If it's going to look half as awesome as that mockup it will be amazing.

I don't do sandwitches much, but:
My two favorite ways to do chicken is either marinated in olive oil with grated lemons (+salt/pepper ldo).
Or breaded with unsweetened cereal or potato chip crumbs.

[boost]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I wrote out a long reply showing how retarded Onga is, I forgot to submit it, then shut down my computer. Ugh..

Anyways, profit margin is not synonymous with ROI. They are completely different stats. Also, there are tons of costs that go into running a food service operation, and if we give a burger a more than generous (to your argument) food cost of 10%, there is no possible way you are getting an 30, much less 80% profit margin. A quick and non-exhaustive list of some costs that go into operating a food service business: food cost, labor, licensing, legal counsel, pest control, paper goods, advertising, equipment maintenance, insurance, property lease, loan repayment, etc.

Willbur, I am not trying to put you down-- I just know how high the failure rate is in this industry, and from reading your posts so far in this thread, you seem like you have very little, if any, experience in the industry. But you also seem like a smart guy. So I think you're fully capable of pulling this off, but you should definitely do a lot of reading and research before opening. There are some really good books on menu planning and whatnot.

Anyways I had a lot more to say, but I can't remember it all, and having a long post lost is pretty disheartening...

[boost]

Too late, I went there! I think he's too pessimistic, while I'm too optimistic. I suspect the real world is somewhere in between.

I hate this this fallacy. Just because there are two sides to an argument, it does not follow that both are inherently equally viable positions.

Wilbur has clearly done his homework,

Clearly to who? You are an uncritical layman, and you somehow think you are a good judge of the viability of his business. Do you not realize that you are doing him a disservice?

and I doubt he's unaware of the hard work required to do this alone.

Realizing something will take hard work, and actually comprehending what that hard work is like are two completely different things. Anyone who is not an absolute drooler "realizes" that opening a food service operation is incredibly hard work. Yet when it actually comes to doing it, many find that they simply can't hack it, even though they were "aware" of what it would take ahead of time.

It's a sound idea

You don't know this-- you don't know enough to even have a guess at this. Furthermore, from what Willbur has written in this thread, there is definitely a reasonable doubt.

... that if followed through correctly, there's a ton of money to be made,

No, probably not.

especially in London and at festivals where people will pay silly prices, that was my point. Judging by what I've read in this thread, he's going about it correctly, so I believe this venture will reap its rewards.

Again, you are a clueless layman. You are pulling opinions out of your ass, and you can't even stop for a second, take a breath, and realize you have no idea what you are talking about, and that the last thing Willbur needs is a unreasonably optimistic cheerleader.

[boost]

Also, I'd like to quickly point out that you certainly can just go into this business not knowing what you're doing and be a huge success. It's what we poker players would call "luckboxing." Just like most donks who luckbox a big score, most restaurateurs who luckbox a successful business are completely ignorant of how lucky they were. And even when people luckbox a success, they are probably making far less money than they could have been. They don't understand menu design, they don't understand what a loss leader is, they probably don't even understand how to calculate food costs and profit margins (ahem... Onga, Willbur... ahem.)

Most people enjoy a romanticized view of the industry. They even romanticize the incredibly hard work and long hours. However, this industry is like any other; "just winging it" often ends up with you just staying open long enough to realize how woefully inept you are and to file for bankruptcy.

[jyms]

Boost does know the food/Restaurant industry. His views are harsh but are also great warnings of what's ahead if things aren't well thought out. I don't think he's saying don't do it as much as he's saying stop dreaming and think about every thing involved. Nobody wants you to fail, it's in fact quite the opposite.

The thing about doing something you love is that the hours and low pay aren't as much of an issue when it never feels like work. If you do make it big, then you've become the nutsinho of the sandwich truck industry, making a killing and loving your days.

[d0zer]

I hate this this fallacy. Just because there are two sides to an argument, it does not follow that both are inherently equally viable positions.

well the problem here is that ongabonga is talking shit and you're educated and have experience in the food services industry, so the two perspectives shouldn't be weighed equally.

[boost]

well the problem here is that ongabonga is talking shit and you're educated and have experience in the food services industry, so the two perspectives shouldn't be weighed equally.

well this is very often the case in a disagreement, yet people invoke this fallacy to buoy their weak, indefensible opinion.

[rong]

lol the boost posts have amused me. GL wilbur, seems you may need it, bit fwiw, I'd be inticed by the funky van and burger names.

[OngBonga]

Boost, I have to admit I stopped reading within a minute, I haven't got the passion for this topic, I gladly concede.

[BooG690]

Shit, I was hoping for another thread where everybody rips OngBonga.

[wufwugy]

He's expert at ripping himself IMO

[Galapogos]

boost laying the smack down, chef-style. Good stuff for Willbur to keep in mind.

[donkbee]

GL Willbur.. keep us updated with your progress!