bb flop flush draw, turn top pair

[daven]

sb is taggish reg, 17-13 who donks a bunch in this kind of pot> he can have flush draws, 2nd pair, 2pr, etc here

utg is 28-6 bad station over small sample
call or raise turn?

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($8.90)
UTG+1 ($19.08)
MP1 ($48.07)
MP2 ($27.67)
CO ($20.80)
BTN ($23.80)
SB (SB) ($25)
hero ($25)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) hero is BB
UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, BTN calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, hero checks

Flop: ($1, 4 players)
SB bets $0.70, hero calls $0.70, UTG calls $0.70, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.10, 3 players)

SB bets $2.90,

[kickass]

call. why no raise pre?

[daven]

call. why no raise pre?

I don't think raising pre is absolutely terrible, but if i do so i most likely see the flop oop 4-way with KQ which isn't great either. Hmm, i don't think raising pre is hugely better than checking, if it is better at all

[d0zer]

you have KQs. how good of a hand do you want before isoing OOP?

[bikes]

aces plus bra AA+

[Hoopy]

Would raise pre since we're way ahead of their ranges.

Maybe raise the flop vs SB's weaker range though I guess keeping the fish in is good.

Given his sizing on the turn I want to call since I think he's bluffing a good percentage.

[daven]

you have KQs. how good of a hand do you want before isoing OOP?

if utg limper calls after i raise, then the others mostly call along too = he's not isolated. I iso with this from here sometimes for sure, not this spot this time though. Sizing if i do raise pre?
Turn as played?

[d0zer]

if utg limper calls after i raise, then the others mostly call along too = he's not isolated. I iso with this from here sometimes for sure, not this spot this time though. Sizing if i do raise pre?
Turn as played?

u shouldn't be uncomfortable playing a multi-way with KQs against fish. turn I can't imagine raising or folding.

[daven]

u shouldn't be uncomfortable playing a multi-way with KQs against fish. turn I can't imagine raising or folding.

valid, cheers

[kickass]

You talking to yrself

[kickass]

I'm thinking 1.5-2. And I'm also thinking bout ranges for villains, surely with this short stack fish open limping, if button had anything worth anything he would've isolated the fish first, sb is completing it doesn't mean he'd call a raise and utg is wank and short let him call all day. I don't think this always goes 4 way and even when it does it should be easy enough to play. Sorry if this doesn't make sense it's Friday aka I'm drunk ergo yeah baby.

[Imthenewfish]

raise pre, as played flop seems like a fistpump raise

[bikes]

flop raising is def a mistake as played

[Imthenewfish]

can you explain? i thought we had like infinity equity and a lot of fold equity and could barrel a ton of turns

[Angryafrican]

Raise pre. As played I think raising flop is terrible (just think of what range hands you're keeping in, your equity is pretty bad vs that range I'd wager). I'd call turn and c/f river to a big sizing unless the flush hits. I feel a bit wierd playing it that way but I'd never check KQ in the BB.

[OngBonga]

My first thought was to raise this flop, we have great equity vs most hands and we rep shitty 2pr combos like 93 so we have lots of fold equity. But raising is likely to induce fold or jam, meaning we're better off raising air here than something that actually wants to see a turn.

As played I'm either folding turn or calling turn calling river. I'm not calling turn to fold brick river, because pot odds and implied odds aren't good enough for heart bink. I don't think our king is good, so I am probably folding turn, but then if I have reason to think this turn psb can be a 2nd barrell bluff, then sure I can call down the king.

And yeah I'm raising this pre, at least I am now. A week ago I check this pre, but I now know this is a mistake.

[surviva316]

You want to fold this turn? What are you, Autistic or something?

[Roid_Rage]

Call turn. Raise river when we hit flush/two pair/trips (or bet if he checks ofc), call if its a blank.

[daven]

hero calls turn
->
River: ($8.90, 2 players)

SB bets $5.40,

what's our play now

[Imthenewfish]

what's our play now

fold

[baudib]

I can see checking something like 99, but I'd raise this for sure, KQs just flops too good against limping ranges to not get more money in.

[rpm]

holy moly raise it pre. as played call turn.

[rpm]

Call turn. Raise river when we hit flush/two pair/trips (or bet if he checks ofc), call if its a blank.

aren't we effectively bluff catching though? i mean his range if he fires three on a non-heart river will be basically missed FD's (if he has them) and sets, right? it seems he will be pretty polarised when he bombs the turn this sizing and then fires a third barrrel.

[rpm]

btw i don't like his sizing but i'm calling river and expecting to see predominantly either two hearts or one of the 9 flopped set combos

edit: unless i have some reason to believe that him leading pot on the turn with a fish still in the pot weights his range too heavily towards nutted hands and away from draws. and that could well be the case.

[surviva316]

aren't we effectively bluff catching though? i mean his range if he fires three on a non-heart river will be basically missed FD's (if he has them) and sets, right? it seems he will be pretty polarised when he bombs the turn this sizing and then fires a third barrrel.

What about all of his combos of two pairs?

[rpm]

surely he only really has 98s? i mean it's not really a two-pairy flop for anyone who who gets described as "reggish", is it?

[OngBonga]

You want to fold this turn? What are you, Autistic or something?

Haha yes I'm autistic. But that's besides the point. Truth be told, I don't know what to do here because I haven't seen how this guy plays the turn after he fires flop. If he normally pots turn after getting cold called, then I'm not folding this turn, but if this psb on turn is to be interpreted as strong, then I fold because we're getting barely over 2:1 with around a 5:1 chance or something of hitting a heart that doesn't pair the board, and a non realistic chance of getting stacks in on river with the best hand when we do bink.

If we think he pays off on any river, or that he can bet this size with KJ or 89hh or other crap we're currently ahead of, then I can change my tune regarding folding turn.

[tiltingdonkey]

I fold river (I probably call in game though, I'm a station).

[daven]

yeah, raising pre is probably better, calling flop is good, so is just calling on the turn...

fade
$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($8.90)
UTG+1 ($19.08)
MP1 ($48.07)
MP2 ($27.67)
CO ($20.80)
BTN ($23.80)
daven (SB) ($25)
BB ($25)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) daven is SB
UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, BTN calls $0.25, daven calls $0.15, BB checks

Flop: ($1, 4 players)
daven bets $0.70, BB calls $0.70, UTG calls $0.70, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.10, 3 players)
daven bets $2.90, BB raises to $5.88, UTG calls $5.88, daven goes all-in $24.05, BB goes all-in $18.17, UTG goes all-in $2.07

River: ($59.15, 3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $59.15
UTG shows a pair of Kings

daven shows three of a kind, Threes

BB shows a pair of Kings


daven wins $57.15 (net +$32.15)

UTG lost $8.90
BTN lost $0.25
BB lost $25

[kickass]

Your a weird guy daven. In a nice way. Good fun, not really sure of the point though.

[daven]

Your a weird guy daven. In a nice way. Good fun, not really sure of the point though.

cheers bro

my point in posting the hand was that i was genuinely curious if his turn play had any merit.

a cool side effect to the thread has been the discussion about pre-flop (trying to defend a play i wouldn't make was interesting cos i think it resulted in good discussion), and i'm pretty sure that those who were advocating raise flop and/or raise turn and/or call river have got something from the thread as well.

[kickass]

Question then; you told us your range for betting the flop so what's your range for betting the turn nearly pot with 2 callers

[Icanhastreebet]

Question then; you told us your range for betting the flop so what's your range for betting the turn nearly pot with 2 callers

the nizzles if villains are playing this terribly.

[daven]

Question then; you told us your range for betting the flop so what's your range for betting the turn nearly pot with 2 callers

sizing would vary heaps by hand on my turn bet here cos villains like these don't notice much difference between 1/3 pot and 4/5 pot....
nut flush draws, Khxh, 2pr+ - i mean, not much vs stations like these