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  1. #1

    Default tvgeer Verdure,

    Sorry, again I am new, and the videos "crushing online" were very eye opening. I will watch them a few times. The reason I have such small hand samples is I have been playing a single table, so tonight I am going to play 2 tables and see how that goes. I got a good idea on how to play my super premium hands from the vids, and I made 8.00 while watching the vids and playing super tight. Thanks for all the info and keep it coming! You are completely right about taking small pots with the pocket pairs pre flop, and not getting frustrated about it. I have been playing backwards. Any more vids would be appreciated. I think a big problem was I was playing one table and would run well then go on "boredom tilt" I would call it playing too many hands and opening leaks in my game. This forum is the nuts!

    I am going to show an example hand that I made the biggest win on.. tell me if I played it right or took too much risk.

    KK on small blind. Cutoff raises 4x BB (14c). I reraise to double his raise at 24c. BB folds, and he reraises to $1.04. I push all in with $4.34 and he insta calls. He had QQ, and it held up to net me $3.96. Now this worked out for me, but was it a proper play? I had him on my HUD as a fairly tight player, so I was sweating it out. Plus an ace came on the board, so if he had an ace I was a loser. What do you guys think?

    Thanks a million
    -Whiz
    Last edited by TheWhizzard; 04-10-2012 at 09:04 PM.
  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWhizzard View Post
    I am going to show an example hand that I made the biggest win on.. tell me if I played it right or took too much risk.

    KK on small blind. Cutoff raises 4x BB (14c). I reraise to double his raise at 24c. BB folds, and he reraises to $1.04. I push all in with $4.34 and he insta calls. He had QQ, and it held up to net me $3.96. Now this worked out for me, but was it a proper play? I had him on my HUD as a fairly tight player, so I was sweating it out. Plus an ace came on the board, so if he had an ace I was a loser. What do you guys think?
    You played it well - with KK you always want to get all the money in pre-flop if you can. It's unlikely he has AA, and you want to get the money in against QQ, AK or even worse like you did here.

    When you made it 24c, you can bet bigger there. If you are going to re-raise a raise (called 3betting) you want to make it maybe 3-4x his raise, so between 42c and 56c here.

    If he has an ace, then 3 aces are left in the deck. The chances of him winning by hitting an ace are about 29%, here's why:

    If he has one ace in his hand, there are 3 aces left in the deck, and 50 unseen cards (you've seen 2 out of 52, your own cards). So on the first card off, the chance of it _not_ being an ace is 47/50, then for the next card it's 46/49 and so on.

    47/50 * 46/49 * 45/48 * 44/47 * 43/46 = 0.714

    That's the chance of 5 cards coming off the deck and none of them being an ace.

    71% is an excellent chance for you to win the hand - if you have even a 51% chance to win the hand, you are correct to get all the money in pre-flop.
  3. #3
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider View Post
    When you made it 24c, you can bet bigger there. If you are going to re-raise a raise (called 3betting) you want to make it maybe 3-4x his raise, so between 42c and 56c here.
    This is exactly what I was thinking. I would never 3-bet less than 3x the prior bet amount. Honestly, on some tables, I go as high as 5x. I add 1x for each caller, too.

    3x examples:
    Hero in BB w/ KK. EPs fold. MP raise to 3 BB, 0 calls. (pot: 4.5 BB) Hero bets 9 BB. (3 + 0)*3BB.
    Hero in BB w/ KK. EP min-raise to 2 BB, 5 calls. (pot: 13.5 BB) Hero bets 16 BB. (3 + 5)*2BB.
    The '3' in the parentheses is the 3x (this is the one I make 4x or 5x sometimes)
    the 0 or 5 is the # of callers
    the last number is the current bet to Hero
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 04-10-2012 at 09:40 PM.
  4. #4
    I have started multi-tabling at the low stakes and things have turned around 100 percent already. Other than sitting at a single 25/50 nl game where I lost 18 dollars *hard earned dollars.... that I won't do again... I am showing an actual profit and my graph is climbing up on PT. The crush online holdem thing has really helped. Any other good vids out there about multitabling / lesson vids you guys can suggest... also.. what is about the best hands you would play from middle to late position while multitabling, and do you flat call them or raise them?
  5. #5
    First, I'd advise not going mad multi-tabling. If you're just starting, 2 tables is probably enough. Any more and you risk not being able to properly pay attention. The first priority is to improve so if you think you can do that on 4 tables good for you, however I think you should try different numbers of tables from 1 to 4 and evaluate where you are best able to pay full attention to your play without feeling rushed.

    Beware of being oriented towards results, when you say you've made some money, I don't want to be discouraging and it's good that you have, but you need to bear in mind that in poker you can play correctly and lose money, or play badly and win money in the short term, since it's not just skill but also luck. Over time, the luck evens out and the skill takes over, but the long run is _very_ long - until you have 20,000 hands you can't even really begin to draw any conclusions from your results, and to trust that any conclusions you do draw are reasonably accurate you probably need 50,000 hands.
    If you start feeling good when you win and bad when you lose, you'll never improve, since you are using the wrong source of feedback for information about how you played. You must base your feelings about how you played on the quality of your own play and not the results. Of course, at first, you have little idea how to evaluate the quality of your own play, but you must try to develop this ability since otherwise you'll never know when you're doing the right thing or the wrong thing - the results you get will _not_ tell you.

    For opening hands, a lot of people will tell you that you shouldn't use a fixed set of hands, but when you're just starting I think it's useful since you can't adapt yet since you have no base to adapt from. This: http://www.gamblingsystem.biz/books/2p2NL6max.pdf will probably be quite helpful, and if you look in the archives and sticky threads here in the Beginners Circle forum you'll doubtless find other similar guides.

    Starting hand selection, when you are just starting and have no real handle on post-flop play yet, should be really really tight. You don't want to play "speculative" (marginal) hands, that require good post-flop play, since although you may be able to make some money from them later once you know how to play them postflop, right now you want to be playing hands that have good potential right away and don't need 2 or even 3 streets of postflop play to return a profit.

    If you're playing full ring, you want to be even tighter than if playing 6max. At first, pick one and play only that, since it will help you develop a base from which to work without trying to learn too many different things at once.

    For 6max, here is an OK (but doubtless very improvable) suggestion for hands you can open:

    UTG: {66-AA,AK,AQ,AJ,KQ}
    UTG+1: {22-AA, AK,AQ,AJ,KQ,JQ,KJ}
    CO: {22-AA, AK,AQ,AJ,KQ,JQ,KJ,AT,JT,AXs}
    BTN: As for cutoff, but if the blinds fold a lot when you raise, so you immediately earn the blinds, then you can add a lot of other hands like KXs, any ace, suited connectors like 89s/78s/67s etc.

    I am sure that this can be seriously improved upon, but I suggest that you stick broadly to it since the first priority is to play tight. You can loosen up a bit later and play more hands once you have a bit of experience.

    When you open, raise to 3bb. If you have AA/KK/QQ/AK and it's opened already in front of you for between 2 and 6bb, raise to 3 or 4 times whatever the original raise made it. For example, if you have QQ on the CO and the player UTG makes it 3bb, raise to between 9 and 12bb. If it's raised AND reraised in front of you, fold everything but AA/KK and either reraise to 2.5x the reraise (about 30bb in our example above) or just shove all-in. These are really coarse starting guidelines, but they're better than nothing.

    You should almost always be opening for a raise, and rarely or never calling. When you open, you have the initiative and can take the pot down with a bluff later much more often than if you were passively calling preflop.

    Hands it is OK to call a raise with with are the smaller pairs (say 22-99) so you can setmine - if you have 33, cold call with it and hit a 3 on the flop for a set, then you can start raising postflop, otherwise you are folding to any bets on the flop.

    NEVER limp (limp means just call the big blind). You can call a raise with the smaller pairs, but if it's not already raised in front of you, raise with them.

    Other than that, at first I would not cold-call at all. Raise or fold. With TT+ re-raise preflop.

    Be aware of the absolute, overwhelming importance of position. It is more important to be in position (closest to the button and hence last to act on every post-flop street) than it is to have good cards. Position is everything.

    It's good that you seem concerned about wasting hard earned money - do you have any idea yet about bankroll management? Because of variance (luck) you need at least 40 buyins at the level you are playing, so if you're playing 2NL ($0.01/$0.02) with a $2 max buyin you need at least $80 bankroll, I'd advise more - I use 100 buyins but some would say that is excessively risk averse. Lots of good players have busted out playing games too big for their bankroll, you must have a BIG buffer to deal with a bad run of luck.
    Last edited by BorisTheSpider; 04-13-2012 at 01:54 PM.

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